Right Thinking From The Left Coast
We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time. - Vince Lombardi

Don’t Blame Me
by Lee

As usual, it’s all society’s fault.

A man who recently was fired from his job at an elementary school is accused of shooting a state highway patrol trooper nine times after a traffic stop.

Trooper Brandon Brashear, 27, of Grain Valley, remained hospitalized Monday in critical but stable condition.

Authorities said Brashear was shot by the suspect early Saturday as the trooper got out of his car. The suspect then chased him into the highway median, continuing to shoot him with a 9 mm assault rifle, police said.

Tommy R. Rollins Jr., 26, of Grandview, was charged with assault on a law enforcement officer and armed criminal action and was being held without bond. He told reporters Sunday that he didn’t mean to shoot Brashear.

“It was just temporary insanity. I wasn’t even thinking when I did it,” he said. “The society’s what caused me to do what I did. Just look at the society we live in.”

Jackson County Prosecutor Michael Sanders said Rollins’ blame was misplaced.

“Mr. Rollins can try to blame anyone he wants to blame, but the reality is, society wasn’t out there pulling that trigger,” Sanders said.

This is, unfortunately, the inevitable end result of 40 years of the left telling everyone that they’re not responsible for their own actions; that everything needs to be viewed in terms of oppression; that individual failures are actually failures of society.  If this trooper happens to die, hopefully society will rectify its complicity by executing the worthless bastard. 

Posted by Lee on 05/30/05 at 05:37 PM (Discuss this in the forums)

Comments


Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/30/05 at 06:56 PM from United States

Gee, I wonder why this upstanding, stable citizen was fired.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 07:12 PM from Canada

I think it was the Twinkie.
Perhaps he thought the trooper was one of the village people trying to come on to him.  I am just waiting for the “low atmospheric pressure defense” for people who recently move to Denver or La Paz.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 07:21 PM from Australia

I usually blame the voices in my head…

although, never tried this after topping a cop.

Posted by Kilroy on 05/30/05 at 07:45 PM from United States

Now where is Drew, to tell us all how this trooper had it coming. For he is a member of a evil system.  That is oppressing him all the way in New Jersey. 

Cop stupid, right Drew.  He got shot.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 08:15 PM from United States

I’d be curious to know which crime drew was accused of that he was arrested, just on a woman’s say-so, and requiring a Grand Jury indictment, which would also lose him his job. He also never mentioned whether he was actually confined without outside contact or whether his rights were actually protected by the system and it was just the overcrowding of a bureaucracy that actually took so long.

But Fuck Da Poe-Lease, fo shizzle, muh nizzle, they jus’ keepin Da Bruthuhs down because Da Joooos said so. Je$$e wouldn’t lie…

Posted by Loud on 05/30/05 at 08:19 PM from United States

The cop was obviously a racist anti-school-teacher fascist.  Cops are all anti-teacher, I speak from experience, as my mom is a teacher and she gets pulled over all the time late at night because she “matches the description of someone they’re looking for in the area.”

Posted by Tj on 05/30/05 at 08:22 PM from United States

Maybe they just think she’s cute.

Posted by Helo on 05/30/05 at 08:30 PM from United States

Damn it, what a bastard.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 08:42 PM from United States

"Damn it, what a Bastard”

Doesn’t even begin to cover the words I have for this POS!

Una Stamus, Trooper!

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 08:47 PM from United States

He took nine slugs and is still alive?!  Wow, thank goodness for body armor and that the shooter was a bad shot.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 09:01 PM from United States

Drum-

Every crime, except for 4th degree bullshit offenses (misdemeanors) require an indictment before they can be brought to trial.

I was confined in a jail cell for about an hour after I had already told the police what had happened. Before being placed in the cell, I asked for a telephone to call my attorney. They told me one would be available to me shortly and then proceeded to interrogated me for about an hour while I was in a jail cell. This interrogation was threatening and involved them telling me that I was going to be sent to county lock-up for the night where I would be “put in a jail cell with the biggest ass-fucker in the joint.” Essentially they tried to bully me into waiving my right to an attorney by threatening me with illegal proceedures.

As far as my other rights are concerned, I believe some were violated. I was not told what I was charged with until after I was in a jail cell. I was arrested with zero evidence. I was strung along for six months by prosecutors who knew full well that I was innocent. The job of a prosecutor is not to “get you if they can get you.” It’s supposed to be to see that justice is done. They threw that principle out the window because they knew if they threw my case out, I would be able to turn around and sue the cops. So they tried to bully me into taking a plea by threatening to heap more charges on top of what they already did. They tried to push for a compromise verdict. They knew full well what they were doing was wrong and did it anyway to protect their idiot pigs. In the end, they got nothing.

I can’t get into details on the freaking internet about what exactly went down but I can tell you this much. I used to be a teacher. A 16 year old girl essentially accused me of putting the moves on her and doing so in a very physical way. It caused me to lose my teaching job and has branded me for life as someone who represents a risk in that field. That doesn’t matter so much. I used to love teaching. Now I wouldn’t go back if they begged me to. If I can be treated the way I was treated on the words of a pathological liar, and have my very liberty at stake because of it, then I say the hell with it. If I ever tried to go back I think I might be paranoid. So in a sense I’m torn. I’m torn because I used to love teaching and wish I could go back. But I also know I never could. I’d be paranoid as crap the whole time. So you see how they fucked up my life pretty good?

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 09:10 PM from United States

Hmmm....I smell.....Bullshit!

Sorry Drew, too many buzzwords used by the frequent flyers of the Court Docket!

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 09:13 PM from Canada

I have heard this phrase: 

fo shizzle, muh nizzle,

many times can anyone tell me what it means?

Posted by Lee on 05/30/05 at 09:14 PM from United States

Literally: “For sure, my nigger.”
Translated: “I agree with what you just said, my friend.”

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 09:17 PM from United States

Before being placed in the cell, I asked for a telephone to call my attorney. They told me one would be available to me shortly and then proceeded to interrogated me for about an hour while I was in a jail cell.

Was you attorney advised that they were violating your Miranda rights? Anyone who has ever seen an episode of any cop show in the last three decades know those rights by heart, and also knows that once you ask for a lawyer, the cops are supposed to stop questioning you. They cannot even ask you what time it is, and anything that is said after that point is fully inadmissable, even if you were guilty and started bragging about how you had done whatever it is you are accused of.

However, for someone who is so biased against the system, I somehow doubt that your chain of events would be entirely neutral - “fair and balanced”, so to speak.

I was arrested with zero evidence.

There had to have been enough to cause a judge to arraign you (aka, a “probable cause” hearing), and all it would have taken was for you to sit tight and say nothing, except for maybe the occasional notice that they are continuing to violate your civil rights or to repeat your demand for a lawyer…

I’m not calling you a liar, just saying that you would have the makings of a lawsuit that would end up with you owning City Hall, if it was true. There would be attorneys lined up around the block looking for 1/3 of an 8- or 9-figure settlement.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 09:17 PM from United States

Hmmm....I smell.....Bullshit!

Sorry Drew, too many buzzwords used by the frequent flyers of the Court Docket!

If you’re calling me a liar then you’re justifying a hatred that’s already there, copper. Fuck you and all your filthy, corrupt kind. You’re all going to hell for what you do every day. I’m not a liar and never have been.

You just don’t like the sound of it because it incriminates the pigs.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 09:21 PM from United States

I’m not a liar and never have been.

And every person in prison is really innocent. Have you any CLUE how many times cops have heard that line?

But no, to you, they’re all corrupt, worthy only of death.

Yeah, you may have gotten fucked over. If true.

But you claim to be a teacher. If one teacher had slept with a single student, does that mean that all teachers are child rapists? Using your logic, it does. So that would make you a rapist, simply because of Mary Kay Letourneau.

You hate all cops everywhere, anywhen, because of your one bad experience.

Fuck you too, you rapist.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 09:23 PM from United States

However, for someone who is so biased against the system, I somehow doubt that your chain of events would be entirely neutral - “fair and balanced”, so to speak.

My bias stems entirely from this episode of my life. The cops did what they did.

There had to have been enough to cause a judge to arraign you (aka, a “probable cause” hearing), and all it would have taken was for you to sit tight and say nothing, except for maybe the occasional notice that they are continuing to violate your civil rights or to repeat your demand for a lawyer…

The judge who issued the arrest warrant was contacted over the phone and the whole thing was done while I was in a jail cell. I repeatedly asked to use the phone but they told me that “That room is being used right now” as they continued to question me. It was just a scare tactic. Take the law-abiding citizen, put him in a jail cell, and see if you can break him.

I’m not calling you a liar, just saying that you would have the makings of a lawsuit that would end up with you owning City Hall, if it was true. There would be attorneys lined up around the block looking for 1/3 of an 8- or 9-figure settlement.

I’m pretty sure my case is pretty damned good so I’ll be using the services of my brother. Might as well keep the fees in the family. Now I know what happened but proving it all is going to be little tougher though. I should be able to prove most of it.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 09:23 PM from United States

Oh, does that sound judgmental? Does that sound too harsh? Hey, all teachers are rapists, only deserving to be thrown into Federal pound-them-in-the-ass prison, isn’t that right, drew?

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 09:26 PM from United States

I should be able to prove most of it.

Yeah, because we all know you “never lie”. Lucky for you that you’ll have a lighter burden of proof than the “pigs” did, because we all know how teachers will rape any kid they can lay their hands on. Fuck those rapists.

Posted by Tj on 05/30/05 at 09:27 PM from United States

Except joeloud’s mom, she’s cute and gets pulled over constantly because of it. (She’s a teacher for those of you just tuning in)

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 09:28 PM from United States

And every person in prison is really innocent. Have you any CLUE how many times cops have heard that line?

But no, to you, they’re all corrupt, worthy only of death.

Yeah, you may have gotten fucked over. If true.

I gave the cops full disclosure and volunteered other evidence that would have cleared my name (and in fact did less that two weeks ago) but they never bothered looking into it. Instead they arrested me on the spot with only the girl’s word.

But you claim to be a teacher. If one teacher had slept with a single student, does that mean that all teachers are child rapists? Using your logic, it does. So that would make you a rapist, simply because of Mary Kay Letourneau.

You hate all cops everywhere, anywhen, because of your one bad experience.

Fuck you too, you rapist.

Teachers don’t all band together and support each other when one does wrong. Teachers do plenty of fucked up shit but if one commits a crime, you can expect the others to condemn it and you can forget about there being a fraternity of corruption whereby they cover up each other’s mistakes.

Cops, on the other hand, are part of a system of corruption and will never report each other’s crimes. It’s a known fact that cops cover for each other. Do you guys have PBA cards out in California? Petty corruption is right out in the open. The big stuff is a little harder to see but it’s there if you just look.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 09:28 PM from United States

How could I “Justify” something you’ve had way before your unpleasant incident?  And nothing I or anyone else could say would probably change it! I’m not saying you’re lying about all that happened. But sorry, you sound more like a Jailhouse Lawyer than a College educated Professional that was wrongly accused of a crime.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 09:31 PM from United States

Teachers don’t all band together and support each other when one does wrong

You’ve never sat in on those secret School Board meetings. Teachers always lie to cover up for their fewllow rapists anyway, that’s how they are, it’s just a fact of life.

Fuck them, they deserve to be thrown in a windowless cell, and have the door welded shut until they die.

Or maybe not, and I shouldn’t judge every teacher everywhere simply because of a few bad apples.

Too bad you seem to be too fucking stupid to learn that lesson.

Prove me wrong, rapist.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 09:32 PM from United States

Yeah, because we all know you “never lie”. Lucky for you that you’ll have a lighter burden of proof than the “pigs” did, because we all know how teachers will rape any kid they can lay their hands on. Fuck those rapists.

The cops made a mistake when they arrested me. They were overaggressive and abusive in the way they handled/threatened me. The prosecutor’s office tried to do real evil to cover up the whole mess by trying to get me to take a plea. To me, it’s pretty clear what happened. I was the victim of a SYSTEM that allows this shit to go on. The problem is much bigger than just what happened to me.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 09:32 PM from United States

You seem to forget that not all Officers are part of the PBA.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 09:37 PM from United States

You’ve never sat in on those secret School Board meetings. Teachers always lie to cover up for their fewllow rapists anyway, that’s how they are, it’s just a fact of life.

I have never once, in all my life, seen or heard of any teacher NOT reporting sexual abuse immediately. That goes for whether the abuser was a peer or a parent or a coach. In fact, in my case, the psycho girl who accused me went to a teacher and told her story. That teacher subsequently referred her to the school administration. There was no cover up. Are teachers perfect? Nope. Are they all saints? hell no. Are there pedophiles out there teaching right now? Absolutely.

The key difference is that teachers will not band together to protect each other. With cops, it literally takes a videocamera and a vigilant bystander to get them busted for abuse. I know one of my biggest problems moving forward with a lawsuit against the pigs is going to be that none of them will admit to wrongdoing because there were two who had a hand in it and two others who stood by in the adjacent room.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 09:41 PM from Canada

Literally: “For sure, my nigger.”
Translated: “I agree with what you just said, my friend.”

Ahhhh how sweet.  Do kids learn this in their Ebonics lessons?

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 09:41 PM from United States

The cops made a mistake when they arrested me.

Maybe they didn’t and you just hadn’t gotten caught before. Because we know how overaggressive and abusive some teachers are, what with tenure making sure that they can never be fired, and with all of those young adolescent students around, it’s just rape, rape, rape, all day long, and only the fact that they can give the kids detention prevents the kids from reporting it all to the authorities.

All teachers are rapists, plain and simple. It’s an institutional thing. The students are victims of a SYSTEM of oppression and abuse. Pink Floyd tried to tell us how big this problem is.

You should have just been stuffed into a cell with Bubba as the rapist you are.

Mary Kay Letourneau proves it! Fuck ALL teachers.

Right, drew? Isn’t that what your logic “proves”? Oh, and every lawyer is corrupt, and taking payments from the really rich to railroad young black men using made up charges and falsified evidence. Right?

Because any instance of malfeasance by any member of a profession automatically convicts every single practitioner of that occupation of that same crime, right, drew? Isn’t that what you are really saying, rapist?

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 09:43 PM from United States

You seem to forget that not all Officers are part of the PBA.

I could care less. There’s corruption out in the open because of those cards. Wives and girlfriends and coppers’ kids get out of tickets and petty bullshit by flashing a card? It aint right. We all know that this goes on.

My hatred is not for all cops. I don’t hate urban cops who actually have to work for a living. I hate the suburban cops who are overpaid and underworked. I hate the state troopers who never once get out of their cars except to write a ticket because all they do is highway patrol (In NJ they mostly pull over minorities, although they have gotten a bit better about that) I have plenty of hatred for the cops who don’t really work for a living.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 09:44 PM from United States

I have never once, in all my life, seen or heard of any teacher NOT reporting sexual abuse immediately.

You’re a liar. I could come up with a dozen who managed to keep their sexual abuse/statutory rape secret from the authorities within just a few minutes. That means that ALL teachers are guilty of rape, and, therefore, so are you.

QED. You just haven’t gotten convicted yet. Must have been a technicality, because all teachers deserve nothing but imprisonment.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 09:45 PM from United States

My hatred is not for all cops.

That’s not what you have been saying, you fucking rapist.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 09:46 PM from Canada

Drew did you get a massive settlement for the false and malicious prosecution?

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/30/05 at 09:51 PM from United States

The key difference is that teachers will not band together to protect each other.

Are you kidding me?

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 09:53 PM from United States

You’re a liar. I could come up with a dozen who managed to keep their sexual abuse/statutory rape secret from the authorities within just a few minutes.

Okay now you’re just playing a game here, Drum. The teachers who THEMSELVES are guilty don’t report THEIR OWN crimes. That’s very different from what I’m talking about.

Do you deny that there is a line the cops draw whereby they do not report each others abuses and they cover for each others mistakes?

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 09:55 PM from United States

Drew did you get a massive settlement for the false and malicious prosecution?

Not yet. It only ended less than two weeks ago. I still haven’t gotten every piece of paperwork back but I do intend to investigate those possibilities.

Are you kidding me?

Yes, teachers are unionized, but they don’t band together to cover up each other’s abuses and excesses and mistakes. That’s a crucial difference, especially considering the comparison that Drum is attempting to make.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 09:59 PM from United States

Do you deny that there is a line the cops draw whereby they do not report each others abuses and they cover for each others mistakes?

Do you claim that all cops are corrupt because of your own bad experience? Or can we continue to use your logic to prove that you are a rapist?

I can go either way, but I really wish you would grow the fuck up and realize what a REAL teacher would know - that one bad apple does not mean that we should claim that every apple tree on the planet should be cut down.

Hyperbole occasionally has its uses, but what you have been doing is nothing more than making yourself look like a spiteful baby.

You ran into some bad cops? Take it up the chain of command - the State Police or FBI. You are willing to throw out every baby ever born AND the entire fucking soap industry with a single tub full of water. You ran into a corrupt lawyer? Take it up with the Legal Ethics Board. Everybody in the country has a boss, even the President.

I repeat: Grow the fuck up.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 10:01 PM from United States

There’s your problem. There is life outside of the State of New Jersey!

“I hate the State Troopers who never once get out of their cars except to write a ticket because all they do is Highway Patrol”.

No kidding, you seem to have mastered the obvious! HAve you figured out that the rest of the Country does not function like the State of NJ yet? 

“I have plenty of hatred for the Cops that don’t really work for a living”.

Yeah I know, we can pound down donuts like it’s nobody’s business. It’s just when we have to go running towards the nutbag shooting people while everyone else is running away that really cramps up the “Easy” work.

And for the “Racial Profiling” Bullshit, It’s really hard to see the skin color of someone who drives by you a 95mph at night with tinted windows. It might be the fact the car has no tags, or expired tags, is speeding or has a host of equipment violations. But nah, according to you the Cops are corrupt and racist and the driver is a minority.

Yeah right!

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 10:03 PM from United States

You still didn’t answer the question. Is there or is there not a line whereby the police DO NOT report each other’s abuses, excesses and mistakes? Is there a big fucking problem that needs solving?

And don’t tell me I look like “spiteful baby” for talking about what happened to me and what I think about it when YOU brought it up on a thread that was totally unrelated.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 10:03 PM from United States

That’s a crucial difference, especially considering the comparison that Drum is attempting to make.

I’m using your logic, and easily verifiable facts. If I come to a conclusion you don’t like, either the facts are false or the logic is wildly faulty.

So which is it? Are all teachers rapists, or is your logic faulty? Are all Catholic priests pedophiles or are you outlandishly inaccurate? Are all cops corrupt or are you completely foolish?

Think it through. And grow the fuck up.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 10:07 PM from United States

Is there a big fucking problem that needs solving?

Yeah, but we can solve it by throwing all those raping teachers straight into prison. Because everyone can agree that all teachers are rapists, especially the ones from Jersey.

(Y’know, it’s difficult making such widely sweeping categorizations of people based on occupations that have suffered a few bad examples. How do you manage to keep it up for so long? Oh, that’s right… sheer hatred. Is that what made you so foolish?)

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 10:09 PM from United States

No kidding, you seem to have mastered the obvious! HAve you figured out that the rest of the Country does not function like the State of NJ yet?

NJ is an especially fucked up state in just about every way.

Yeah I know, we can pound down donuts like it’s nobody’s business. It’s just when we have to go running towards the nutbag shooting people while everyone else is running away that really cramps up the “Easy” work.

par for the course when the other 364 days a year they loaf around in big Crown Victorias looking for a minority to bother.

And for the “Racial Profiling” Bullshit, It’s really hard to see the skin color of someone who drives by you a 95mph at night with tinted windows. It might be the fact the car has no tags, or expired tags, is speeding or has a host of equipment violations. But nah, according to you the Cops are corrupt and racist and the driver is a minority.

I would agree with you except for the fact that internal memos were leaked that specifically told officers to racially profile. I’ve been pulled over by state troopers and I am very very dark, resembling a hispanic. I’ve been pulled over for legitimate reasons. I’ve also been pulled over for my license plate light being out when it wasn’t out. I’ve also been pulled over for going 5 mph over the speed limit. I’ve been pulled over and not even been told why and have just been told “everything’s okay, move along” (perhaps after the cop realizes I have a local not Mexican accent)

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 10:17 PM from United States

Drum-

Probably the bigger problem than the pedophile preists was the giant scope of the cover-up the church engaged in to keep it quiet. Had the church acted with greater vigilence, much of the damage could have been averted.

That ties in to the cops. They cover up and keep things quiet. Therein lies the biggest problem

Yeah the guys who arrested me made a huge mistake. But they could have undone it at any time. They didn’t. The prosecutor’s office made an attempt to cover it up by bullying a conviction out of me. This wasn’t the work of just two cops or even one police department. This is just a snapshot of a huge systemic problem whereby prosecutors and cops are covering for each other and excusing each other’s abuses.

Y’know, it’s difficult making such widely sweeping categorizations of people based on occupations that have suffered a few bad examples. How do you manage to keep it up for so long? Oh, that’s right… sheer hatred. Is that what made you so foolish?

Sometimes hatred is the result of having seen the truth of things. There is a massive systemic problem that needs to be solved and it won’t happen as long as people believe that the cases of abuse they see are the work of a few bad apples. What happened to me was done on both the county and local level. That’s evidence of a much bigger problem than just one or two abusive pricks.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 10:18 PM from United States

Maybe they were just letting you know how they were keeping an eye on all of you future rapists. Seeing as how you’re a teacher and all…

Have you not yet comprehended that your total lack of experience outside of your local neighborhood means that you have no idea what you’re talking about?

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 10:24 PM from United States

There is a massive systemic problem that needs to be solved and it won’t happen as long as people believe that the cases of abuse they see are the work of a few bad apples.

Yeah. I think we should just castrate all teachers. It will certainly put a stop to all that child rape you’ve been committing.

One last time, you stupid fucking rapist…

Not all cops are bad. Not every cop is involved with screwing you over personally. But that is the level of accusations you’ve been making. And the fact you haven’t figured this out yet - despite my repeated exaggerations - provides a great deal of negative evidence regarding your claims of being learned enough to qualify as a teacher of anything more advanced than coloring within the lines.

You had ONE BAD EXPERIENCE.That DOES NOT translate into every cop, everywhere, anywhen, being corrupt and looking to fuck over innocent rapists-who-just-haven’t-been-caught-yet.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 10:26 PM from United States

Drum-

You’re playing a game and avoiding the question. Is there or is there not a line whereby the police DO NOT report each other’s abuses, excesses and mistakes?

If by “local neighborhood” you mean NJ I’d say you’re right. I’ve lived in this state all my life but I’ve lived in a few very different parts of the state.

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/30/05 at 10:29 PM from United States

drewdog: As they say, New Jersey is made the butt of hundreds of cruel jokes around the country. If you drive there, though, you’ll see safe streets, beautiful homes, and clean city centers.

Then you’ll cross the border into New Jersey, and understand what the cruel jokes are about. *badabing*

Anyway, no, letting cops family’s out of traffic tickets isn’t “abuse”, it’s professional courtesy with the understanding that they won’t abuse the favors. Everybody knows about it, and no, nobody but you cares. That said, there *is* massive systemic corruption in some police communities, and if you don’t like it, I suggest you live somewhere better. I’m preparing to bail on Illinois for a similar reason.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 10:30 PM from United States

Not all cops are bad.

Never said they were. I think most of ‘em are though, and the suburban do-nothings are mostly to blame.

I am addressing a systemic problem of cover-up and corruption. Deny it at the risk of your own credibility.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 10:33 PM from United States

Thanks for putting it down for me Drum! Now if you’ll excuse me Drew, I have to go to my “Goof off” job that may or may not get me killed sometime in the near future. Or tonight for that matter

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 10:38 PM from United States

Is there or is there not a line whereby the police DO NOT report each other’s abuses, excesses and mistakes?

It is my position that there are just as many raping teachers as there are corrupt cops, with about the same level of cooperation and concealment by their counterparts.

According to your logic, that makes you a rapist. QED.

then again, maybe your logic is wrong. But that would require you to admit that you are full of shit.

Never said they were.

]

Yes, you did. You repeatedly said that ALL cops are corrupt, and even implied at one point that they were all in on covering up for your individual case.

I am addressing a systemic problem of cover-up and corruption.

So am I, rapist. Are you denying that a teacher raping a child is not a systematic problem of cover-up and corruption? Again, by your logic, that makes them ALL rapists.

I’ve lived in this state all my life but I’ve lived in a few very different parts of the state.

Have you ever been outside the New Jersey/NYC area? (I’ve been to your neighborhood. Have you ever been to mine? if not, then what gives you the right to judge the cops here locally by the standards of your ONE BAD EXPERIENCE?

Is this fact not sinking in deep enough to register?

(And I wouldn’t worry too much about my credibility, rapist.)

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 10:43 PM from United States

Anyway, no, letting cops family’s out of traffic tickets isn’t “abuse”, it’s professional courtesy with the understanding that they won’t abuse the favors.

Professional courtesy? It’s petty corruption and of course I care because as long as it’s tolerated, the climate is set for bigger problems.

That said, there *is* massive systemic corruption in some police communities, and if you don’t like it, I suggest you live somewhere better. I’m preparing to bail on Illinois for a similar reason.

I’d love to. But thousands of dollars of legal debts in the hole, I’ve been forced to move in with my parents and I’m not going to be able to go anywhere for some time or until I win a large cash settlement from the fucks who are responsible.

Thanks for putting it down for me Drum! Now if you’ll excuse me Drew, I have to go to my “Goof off” job that may or may not get me killed sometime in the near future. Or tonight for that matter

Yeah cops always talk about the “risk” they take whenever they get called out on their bullshit or their union wants a big fat raise. It’s not even close to the most dangerous job in America but the cops talk about danger the most. Plenty of jobs are far worse like, say, driving a cab in NYC or working on certain types of fishing boats. No one talks about their heroism or sacrifice.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 10:47 PM from United States

Drum, you’re dodging the point. You won’t address the question about whether or not there’s a massive systemic problem, instead choosing to keep callling me a rapist when I think you know full well I’m not.

You are being willfully ignorant if you deny that there’s a huge problem that needs to be addressed.

I would be willfully ignorant if I denied that there was a problem with teachers sexually abusing students.

The difference is in the numbers of teachers/cops involved in these things. I’ve seen a top-to-bottom gloss job on their part. My attorney and a former cop I hired as an investigator assured me that it was routine. I’ve never seen teachers do such a thing.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 10:52 PM from United States

I would be willfully ignorant if I denied that there was a problem with teachers sexually abusing students.

But by the logic you are using, that would mean that all teachers are rapists - it’s just that some of them haven’t been caught yet.

You are being willfully ignorant if you deny that there’s a huge problem that needs to be addressed.

Maybe in Yourtown, New Jersey, but NOT EVERYWHERE. Is this too tough a concept for you? I don’t know how else I can put it so that this idea will sink in…

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 11:00 PM from United States

Happy Memorial Day...to those who have served, my hat is off to you…

Posted by Lee on 05/30/05 at 11:05 PM from United States

I thought you took your hat off so you could put Sipidation’s balls in your mouth.  Doesn’t the hat get in the way?

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 11:06 PM from United States

Each state has it’s own system Drum. I know mine pretty damned well. It’s pretty much a travesty. If you’re is just peachy then by all means don’t do anything about it. I intend to lawfully pursue the people who did me wrong. When I’m done, I’m going to law school and I’ll spend my life bucking heads with the sytem because it needs to be fixed so badly that I’m tempted to say “scrap it and start all over.” It’s bad here. I hope it’s not as bad for you. I wish I could put my finger on a key difference that would make other cops better. I can’t think of one.

But by the logic you are using, that would mean that all teachers are rapists - it’s just that some of them haven’t been caught yet.

It’s not even close to the same. Do all teachers molest kids? Of course not. Do all cops bully and abuse and engage in corruption? Nope. But I do know what just about all cops are willing to do. They’re willing to look the other way and cover for each other’s mistakes. They’re willing to “honor” (is that the right word when corruption is involved?) the PBA card and not write the ticket. They respect the line between “us” and “them” moreso than they respect the duties of their job. This is the endemic problem. It’s much deeper than what happened to me and I’ve been assured by professionals, including two former cops I employed as detectives (from seperate agencies) that this is a common problem. Cops are always pulling this crap.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 11:10 PM from United States

Thanks Lee, you’re fucking classy...asshole.

Posted by Lee on 05/30/05 at 11:16 PM from United States

Hey, you’re the one who keeps coming around here.  Like I said, the only reason I haven’t banned you is because we all have too much fun when you come around.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 11:16 PM from United States

But I do know what just about all cops are willing to do. They’re willing to look the other way and cover for each other’s mistakes.

But I know what all teachers are willing to do. They’re willing to look the other way and cover up each other’s mistakes. They’re always pulling this crap.

And don’t even get me STARTED on defense lawyers, always trying to intimidate witnesses into “faulty” memories, or turning over names of witnesses to the accused and his friends, just to make sure that none of them survive to testify. Those fucking criminals, and a college education just makes it easy to confuse people who dont’ spend all day making up new reasons why their criminal is really an innocent victim, and he deserves a big settlement.

If it weren’t for those lawyers, we wouldn’t need any lawyers at all.

You obviously refuse to acknowledge that your logic is faulty, so all I can say is fuck you, you rapist.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 11:19 PM from United States

You’re the one using exagerated monkey logic every time you call me a rapist. You fail to see that your comparison of teachers to cops isn’t even close to on point. In fact it’s so far off base that it defies further explanation.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 11:19 PM from United States

Whatever Lee, I was trying to be serious. I know there are many veterans here, so what the fuck is your problem? Even on Memorial Day, you have to be an asshole?

Posted by Manwhore on 05/30/05 at 11:20 PM from United States

This is, unfortunately, the inevitable end result of 40 years of the left telling everyone that they’re not responsible for their own actions; that everything needs to be viewed in terms of oppression; that individual failures are actually failures of society.  If this trooper happens to die, hopefully society will rectify its complicity by executing the worthless bastard.

If it was the left who told him it was at fault was it the right that enabled him to get the gun?

Posted by Lee on 05/30/05 at 11:23 PM from United States

Even on Memorial Day, you have to be an asshole?

Just to you.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 11:26 PM from United States

You fail to see that your comparison of teachers to cops isn’t even close to on point.

The whole point I’m trying to make - and that you seem to be utterly incapable of grasping - is that NOT ALL cops are like that. You have repeatedly said otherwise.

You’re the one using exagerated monkey logic every time you call me a rapist.

Strange that you should say that, because the logic I’m using is your own.

Let me try again: You cannot make a general rule from one (or a very few) examples. But you are apparently trying to claim that because two or three (or a half dozen) cops and a handful of lawyers are representative of the almost THREE MILLION cops out there and the countless numbers of prosecutors and judges, despite repeated examples to the contrary.

Do. You. Get. It. Yet?

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 11:26 PM from United States

Well, it’s good to know that Lee.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 11:27 PM from United States

Drop the word “because”. We regret any inconvenience.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 11:30 PM from United States

If I’m reading this right, Drewdog is saying all cops are on the take and racist. Well that’s like saying all boots treat Iraqi terrorist like little bitches and make them all wear underwear on there heads. Oh wait, we do!! Big fucking deal, get over it liar.

Posted by Lee on 05/30/05 at 11:31 PM from United States

Rick!  Semper Fi, brother.  Happy Memorial Day.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 11:36 PM from United States

Rick.

I’m not a liar. Fuck off. What happened to me is what happened and I have not made up or exaggerated any of the facts.

I’m saying there is a huge systemic problem that encourages corruption on a massive scale. This goes beyond my own egregious example. This goes to the fact that every single person with expertise that I talked to, which included 6 attorneys and 2 investigators that were former cops, and 2 other experts that were former cops, all agreed that the prosecutor’s office was attempting a gloss job. They all agreed with my assessments.

What’s your expertise, Drum?

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 11:36 PM from United States

Happy Memorial Day, rick! Bravo Zulu, Marine.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 11:42 PM from United States

Right on guys. Thanks Lee , Thanks Drum. Back at both of you to vets. Hey Drew do you remember the cover up in New York, where all the cops covered up for the one cop who used a night stick on the imigrent (sp). Yea they stuck to their guns for that guy hu? By the way that one bad apple is doing 30 plus years for being like you, a rapo.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 11:45 PM from United States

I’ve talked to police, prosecutors (and defense attorneys) and judges in several different states. I’ve ridden patrol with several officers on multiple occasions. I’ve even been offered a job as a guard in the Texas State prison system (turned it down, though). (Apropos of nothing else, I also scored highest on the Police Dispatcher test taken several years ago. With my 10 points veteran’s preference bonus, I scored 108 on a scale of 100.)

I can tell you that not every cop is corrupt or out to get minorities. But you won’t believe that, because rapists are notoriously difficult to convince of that truth.

Posted by Sean M. on 05/30/05 at 11:46 PM from United States

drew,
If your claims are as serious as you say that they are, have you contacted the DOJ Civil Rights Division Special Litigation Section?  I mean, if your local cops are as dirty as you say they are, the Feds might be interested in investigating.

And by the way, Drum’s got you with the point that he keeps hammering home.  Just because your local cops may be wrong guys, most of the police officers I’ve had occasion to know are honorable people who are trying to help their communities.  That includes cops from both urban and suburban agencies.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 11:53 PM from United States

Hey Drew do you remember the cover up in New York, where all the cops covered up for the one cop who used a night stick on the imigrent (sp). Yea they stuck to their guns for that guy hu? By the way that one bad apple is doing 30 plus years for being like you, a rapo.

That was too much for even the worst cops to cover up. Beyond that, you’re talking about the NYPD. I already said I don’t hate urban cops who have to work for a living. I believe that happened in Brooklyn.

I can tell you that not every cop is corrupt or out to get minorities. But you won’t believe that, because rapists are notoriously difficult to convince of that truth

I don’t think EVERY cop is out to get minorities or engage in corruption. I respect urban cops. I don’t have any respect for do-nothing suburban amateurs that are overpaid and underworked. Rural cops are much the same.

Also bear in mind that I’m addressing the system more than the individual cops. There is a systemic problem when corruption is as widespread as it is. I admit I’m only familiar with NJ, but I can’t see why it should be any different anywhere else if the system is essentially the same.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 11:56 PM from United States

Sean,

Thanks for the heads up on the link. I’ll be using that.

As for your experiences with cops, I wish mine were the same. I wish everone’s were. I see what goes on in NJ and it’s an obscenity. I hope things are better where you’re from.

The problems here went up to at least the county level because the prosecutor’s office is run by the county.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/31/05 at 12:00 AM from United States

I don’t think EVERY cop is out to get minorities or engage in corruption.

Nice backpedal, pal. You have said that you DID think so, on several occasions, just today. I recommend you go back and reread your own statements for proof.

Case in point:

Rural cops are much the same.

But just mere syllables later…

I admit I’m only familiar with NJ, but I can’t see why it should be any different anywhere else if the system is essentially the same.

When in hell have you ever even SEEN a rural cop, much less had sufficient interaction to judge how “overpaid and underworked” they are? The average rural cop probably covers more territory in a single shift than you have covered in your entire LIFE, you asshat, yet you dare to sit in judgement of them because of your LIMITED SINGULAR EXPERIENCE?

*hums a little tune while waiting*

Now. Would you like to rephrase those comments?

Or can we just accept that you are a clueless fucking asshat who got off light?

Posted by Loud on 05/31/05 at 12:06 AM from United States

My bias stems entirely from this episode of my life. The cops did what they did.

Drew, I know that there are absolutely no corrupt cops in the country, because I know one personally and that allows me to make a sweeping generalization that they’re all great, upstanding members of their communities.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 12:18 AM from United States

Fuck you drum. You have about as much expertise as a chimpanzee yet you insult me who has more (although it is limited to NJ) personal experience and professional opinions upon which to base his opinions. I’m talking about a serious problem and you just brush it off as if I’m making this up.

I don’t think every cop is corrupt or out to get minorities. I’ve been explicit that urban cops have a job to do. These suburban and rural types have nothing to do but look for trouble, and if they don’t find any they can make it.

When in hell have you ever even SEEN a rural cop, much less had sufficient interaction to judge how “overpaid and underworked” they are? The average rural cop probably covers more territory in a single shift than you have covered in your entire LIFE, you asshat, yet you dare to sit in judgement of them because of your LIMITED SINGULAR EXPERIENCE?

Right. Covered more territory. Driving around. It’s hard work driving around and occasionally pulling someone over for speeding. There’s plenty of rural sections of NJ, and it just shows YOUR ignorance to assume that NJ is just an urban to suburban wasteland best viewed from the Manhattan side of the Hudson (At least that is the common conception and I’m going to assume that’s why you believe I could have never encountered a rural cop.

Or can we just accept that you are a clueless fucking asshat who got off light?

I committed no crime. “Got off light” suggests I did. Fuck off Drum. I had my career stolen from me and paid out tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees. I didn’t get off “light.” I paid a heavy price for the words of a pathological liar and the mistakes of some idiot, incompetant cops. Compounding the matter was the absolute refusal, on the county level, of the prosecutor’s office to admit a mistake was made. My name was dragged through the mud and my whole family suffered. There was nothing “light” about it.

How about we just accept that you are a clueless fucking asshat who refuses to believe the system needs to be fixed.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 12:22 AM from United States

I paid a heavy price for the words of a pathological liar and the mistakes of some idiot, incompetant cops.

Why not direct all your hatred at the psycho bitch who made the story up in the first place?

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 12:22 AM from United States

Drew, I know that there are absolutely no corrupt cops in the country, because I know one personally and that allows me to make a sweeping generalization that they’re all great, upstanding members of their communities.

I’m talking about a systemic problem. They honor each other before they honor their civic duties. In that sense they are like a mafia. It is very rare that cops won’t lie/cover up for each other. I’m willing to bet I have an uphill fight ahead of me because of this. I accept it. I know what happened and I’m going to seek reciprocity.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/31/05 at 12:31 AM from United States

Fuck you drum. You have about as much expertise as a chimpanzee yet you insult me who has more (although it is limited to NJ) personal experience and professional opinions upon which to base his opinions.

Yeah, you talked to half a dozen cops from a single location in a single state, yet you claim that my talking to that several dozen cops in a dozen States, as well as judges and attorneys from all over the country is somehow invalid experience? Fuck you right back, rapist.

You haven’t got a fucking clue what you’re talking about, and you pretend to some sort of Gnosis regarding every cop everywhere, anywhen, ignoring the thousands of counter-examples provided, all over some perceived slight, because you claim you are innocent.

Poor fucking baby.

Grow the fuck up.

I had my career stolen from me and paid out tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees.

It would have been a hell of a lot worse if the system didn’t work.

My name was dragged through the mud and my whole family suffered.

Exactly what rapists deserve.

Why are you SO FUCKING STUPID to be incapable of grasping that your (self-admittedly) EXTREMELY LIMITED EXPERIENCE does not set the standard in all other places? One example does not a statistical universe make. Is your ignorance a voluntary thing, or should we just blame your parents?

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 12:35 AM from United States

Why not direct all your hatred at the psycho bitch who made the story up in the first place?

First off, there’s more than enough anger to go around. She’s just a whacked out girl. The cops should have picked up on that and when they didn’t, and evidence started to point in the other direction, they should have dismissed the charges.

Additionally, I believe the police destroyed and sabotaged evidence. I believe my initial statements were taped because I saw the copper putting a tape into a VCR before he began interrogating me. The recording never surfaced. There are two reasons for this. The biggest one was that I pleaded with the cops to look into certain exculpatory facts. They didn’t bother and they made their arrest. I believe they destroyed the tape when all my facts checked out. That way no one could say they knew better than to arrest me at that time. I also believe that the tape would have shown the abusive tenor of the interrogating officers. With no useful or incriminating data on the tape, I believe they destroyed the tape. The prosecutor might have wanted it to try to “hem me in” on contradictions of words come trial time, but the cops probably decided it was best to keep the tape out of the file.

Additionally, the psycho girl who accused me also made an accusation about someone else threatening her at gunpoint in front of witnesses. This was someone she had previously spread rumors about. THe police investigated and found the guy to be 100% innocent. Talking to those witnesses made it pretty easy for even those Keystone cops. They made no arrest, but also could no produce any documents to show that there was such an investigation a week later. The other accused individual wanted some paperwork to show she had made the accusation because he feared that she might strike again, this time with greater efficacy. I believe the cops got rid of any/all paperwork on this because they didn’t want proof of their girl crying wolf.

Is that a good enough reason to be a little bit pissed at the cops, Moxie?

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/31/05 at 12:36 AM from United States

it just shows YOUR ignorance to assume that NJ is just an urban to suburban wasteland best viewed from the Manhattan side of the Hudson (At least that is the common conception and I’m going to assume that’s why you believe I could have never encountered a rural cop.

Fuck you again. I’ve been to Jersey. Have you EVER been anywhere else (other than “The City")? If you have, please explain the exact level and extent of your interaction with the peace officers and State cops in each of those locations. Include names and ranks of each officer.

Or shut the fuck up about “all cops”. Fucking rapist.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 12:39 AM from United States

She’s just a whacked out girl.

You’re an idiot. That is all.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/31/05 at 12:41 AM from United States

I believe my initial statements were taped because I saw the copper putting a tape into a VCR before he began interrogating me. The recording never surfaced.

Or maybe he wasn’t actually recording you, had that possibility crossed your mind?

Oh, no, of course not, that might mean that the coppers “weren’t” out to get poor widdle innocent minority Drew.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 12:41 AM from United States

Drum, your very bold for a little man behind a computer. You mock me as the culprit when I am the victim. I’ll tell you what man. You’re the ultimate sucker if you believe that there is not a systemic problem whereby the cops cover for each other’s fucked up mistakes. You’re obviously the biased one if you’re going on “ride alongs” and hokey crap like that. Don’t tell me about your experiences until you have LIVED the system.

Wanna buy a bridge?

You like to resort to antagonistic name-calling and you tell me to grow up? Who is the one who needs to (as you keep saying) grow up?

Hey what do you do for a living? Maybe we can extend “my” logic to your job too!

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/31/05 at 12:44 AM from United States

Who is the one who needs to (as you keep saying) grow up?

That would be YOU.

Maybe we can extend “my” logic to your job too!

I run my own business, working with computers and networks.

But you know what’s funny? The fact that you STILL don’t get it.

Like Moxie says, you’re an idiot. That is all.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 12:45 AM from United States

Fuck you again. I’ve been to Jersey. Have you EVER been anywhere else (other than “The City")? If you have, please explain the exact level and extent of your interaction with the peace officers and State cops in each of those locations. Include names and ranks of each officer.

Or shut the fuck up about “all cops”. Fucking rapist.

You keep calling me a rapist probably because you hope to incite me. It’s childish. It shows how emotionally charged you have become in defense of the problem.  Of course I’ve been outside Jersey. This is the only place I’ve lived. I’m not going to humor me with the details of your insane request.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 12:46 AM from United States

Or maybe he wasn’t actually recording you, had that possibility crossed your mind?

Oh, no, of course not, that might mean that the coppers “weren’t” out to get poor widdle innocent minority Drew.

Why pop the tape in and interrogate me in the room with the recording devices if you don’t mean to record me? They had every reason to destroy that recording. I can’t prove they did this and I can’t even be 100% sure, but I have a hard time believing they popped a tape into the machine right before they started interrogating me… for no reason.

You got an explaination, Mr. Police expert?

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/31/05 at 12:47 AM from United States

You’re the ultimate sucker if you believe that there is not a systemic problem whereby the cops cover for each other’s fucked up mistakes.

Maybe in that fucked-up hellhole of New Jersey.

BUT NOT EVERYWHERE. Are you being deliberately obtuse or is it just that unbred stupidity showing itself? (Explains why you had to resort to rape.)

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/31/05 at 12:47 AM from United States

They had every reason to destroy that recording.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 12:51 AM from United States

You’re an idiot. That is all.

Yes I am an idiot but not for this… Moxie, go through what I’ve gone through and see if there’s not an ounce of anger. See if you don’t believe the system needs to be fixed. If everything you’ve seen and heard in the last 6 months tells you that the whole thing is fucked, would you stop believing it because Drum, who has “talked to cops” insists that the problem isn’t there? I’m not going to put my head in the sand.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/31/05 at 12:53 AM from United States

but I have a hard time believing they popped a tape into the machine right before they started interrogating me… for no reason.

Captain: “Hey, Smitty, are you going back into Interrogation 1?”

Smitty: “As a matter of fact, I am.”

“Captain: “Could you put this tape back in the VCR machine in there? We need to rewind it before we use it again, but I don’t want to leave it on my desk.”

Smitty: “No problem, Cap’n.”

***

Totally inconceivable? Only to those who aren’t bothering to look for innocent explanations.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 12:58 AM from United States

I run my own business, working with computers and networks.

I won’t even get started.

Maybe in that fucked-up hellhole of New Jersey.

BUT NOT EVERYWHERE. Are you being deliberately obtuse or is it just that unbred stupidity showing itself? (Explains why you had to resort to rape.)

I have acknowledged a lack of knowledge about other states. I hope things are better. I will not be a believer until I see it. Every state has its own system, it’s own procedures. I don’t know the specific differences from state to state and, Drum, I hope you’re right. I don’t believe you are.

I know what goes down in Jersey and it’s got to be corrected. I believe the problem is bigger than that because I see no reason why police in say, Texas, would be inclined to behave any differently.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/31/05 at 12:58 AM from United States

would you stop believing it because Drum, who has “talked to cops” insists that the problem isn’t there?

You claim to have “talked to cops” and insist that a problem IS there. What’s the difference? I mean, by the logic you are using, you’re a rapist anyway…

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/31/05 at 01:00 AM from United States

I have acknowledged a lack of knowledge about other states.

Yet you still claim knowledge of their police forces.

Don’t you fucking GET IT???

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/31/05 at 01:01 AM from United States

because I see no reason why police in say, Texas, would be inclined to behave any differently.

Maybe because they don’t have to put up with YOU?

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 01:02 AM from United States

Drum, the cops waited until after I had signed away my miranda rights (yep I was 100% forthcoming and straightforward with ‘em) and then popped the tape in just as the questioning was beginning. Perhaps I could have been more clear, but it seems to me pretty obvious that they popped the tape in to tape me.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 01:04 AM from United States

The cops I talked to were retired and commenting on exactly what was happening to me. These people had firsthand knowledge of the dirty jersey system.

Posted by Seth on 05/31/05 at 01:06 AM from United States

Yo, Drew

When I lived in Nevada, I was a security shift supervisor in a really busy casino on swing shift. My crew and I had to hook up a lot of people for every felony you can imagine, often. You have no idea how many cops I dealt with on a daily basis, became friendly with, socialized with, got to know and I can tell you this:
Whatever signals they give off to people like you or however they behave as individuals, every last one of them is prepared to take risks on your behalf that most folks won’t, up to and including the very real possibility of getting capped.
So yeah, the dangerpart of a cop’s resume is a strong reality.
A few zillion posts ago, Da Copper was right on time, you employed too many buzz words cops hear every day from criminal types. He would know, and your account of events seems to me to stink to “high heaven”.
I rarely put my $.02 in here, though I’m an avid fan of Right Thinking and have been for a long time, but in this instance I have to say that while I’ve always thought you were full of shit, I now think even less of you. You probably should have kept your sex offender story to yourself.

And you were empowered by the State of New Jersey to teach children?
Bummer!

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/31/05 at 01:10 AM from United States

Did they have you speak your name, the date and time, and identify themselves as though they were being recorded? Or is it POSSIBLE that they popped the tape in as an afterthought, and you only thought they were taping you?

(And WHY in God’s name did you waive any Miranda rights, even if you were innocent? Sounds like it was your own sheer stupidity that landed you in all the hot water, not the actions of any allegedly corrupt cops.)

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/31/05 at 01:12 AM from United States

Perhaps I could have been more clear, but it seems to me pretty obvious that they popped the tape in to tape me.

Again, you’re assuming facts not in evidence. Your suppositions do not a fact make. (Besides, the cops are allowed to lie in order to secure a confession. SCOTUS says so.)

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 01:14 AM from United States

That’s great srharvey. First of all, I’m not a sex offender. Second of all, if you think for even a second that DaCopper is right about “buzz words” I’d love to hear ‘em.

Sounds to me like you’re an asshole who depended on cops to cart the drunks off where you used to work so you feel like you have to defend them.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/31/05 at 01:19 AM from United States

First of all, I’m not a sex offender.

No, I thought we’d established that you were a Rapist, like all of the other teachers.

Why can’t you just fucking admit that you are wrong, and that maybe, JUST MAYBE, it’s possible that not every cop is corrupt and ready to abuse you personally? Are you THAT much of a fucking idiot?

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 01:19 AM from United States

Did they have you speak your name, the date and time, and identify themselves as though they were being recorded? Or is it POSSIBLE that they popped the tape in as an afterthought, and you only thought they were taping you?

They did not, but apparently that’s not a part of the procedure. I heard the tapes from other people they interveiwed and the detective interviewing would say the date and time if it was an audio tape. If it was a videotape the date and time were on the screen. There was only one videotaped statement (the girl’s story) and the girl didn’t know she was being taped.

(And WHY in God’s name did you waive any Miranda rights, even if you were innocent? Sounds like it was your own sheer stupidity that landed you in all the hot water, not the actions of any allegedly corrupt cops.)

It was more naivete than stupidity. First of all, I didn’t even think I was in trouble. They didn’t tell me why they were bringing me down to the station until after I had signed the miranda warning. After they began interrogating me, I was able to get an idea of what it was I was accused of but proceeded to be 100% forthcoming because I had nothing to hide.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 01:22 AM from United States

Again, you’re assuming facts not in evidence. Your suppositions do not a fact make.

I said this would be difficult to prove. I know for myself what was done. I can’t change what was done to suit your world view drum.

(Besides, the cops are allowed to lie in order to secure a confession. SCOTUS says so.)

That ought to change. I was aware of this. Thus the threats they made might even be considered lawful.

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/31/05 at 01:22 AM from United States

To be fair, there *is* a problem in law enforcement all over the country, but I think the conclusions drewdog has drawn from his experience in NJ have nothing to do with the rest of the society. At least here in Illinois, the problem is usually incompetent officials who got their jobs through political favors combined with imbecilic social trends that pressure them to tell their cops to do stupid things, like arrest everybody who’s accused of domestic battery regardless of how ludicrous the case is. Because this is such a hot-button topic, it’s the most commonly abused one.

The same week a family member of mine was arrested on false claims of home invasion (and immediately bailed out) on a case so assinine the judge stormed out of court to get a cup of water, screeching about wasting his time on “the case of the century”, a woman was on the front page who had gotten her ex-husband arrested and locked up for months (just in waiting for his trial) by going out back and beating her own head against a tree trunk. The only thing that kept him out of prison was that somebody had actually *seen* her beating her head against the same tree, the same way that the only thing that kept my relative out of the clink was a pastor’s testimony confirming where he was that morning. (The local Women’s Center supported her to the bitter end, when she fled to Canada after her husband realized she was full of it and threw her out.)

Cops often get caught in the middle, and it’s such a Nazi roundup with every leftwing group you can imagine involved that if they don’t get a conviction, they’re accused of “not caring about women’s right”, which, in our bizarro liberal world, is worse than sending innocent people to prison and ruining people’s lives with Class X felony arrests because some crazy twink went off her meds.

Drewdog’s conclusions about “cops” are all wrong, in my opinion, but for anybody who doesn’t think this is a real problem, I sincerely suggest that you be *extremely* careful who you date, because it’s not as easy to set this idiocy right as you might think, and you’re likely living a fantasy if you think you’ll be able to successfully get a conviction for filing a false police report or sue the cops, no matter how cursory and negligent their investigation may have been.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 01:24 AM from United States

Why can’t you just fucking admit that you are wrong, and that maybe, JUST MAYBE, it’s possible that not every cop is corrupt and ready to abuse you personally? Are you THAT much of a fucking idiot?

I never said they were trying to abuse me personally although I do suspect racism may have played a role in their original arrest. I do believe that THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of cops in NJ, with the exception of the few urban centers, are corrupt and willing to cover up each other’s mistakes.

It all starts with a little PBA card and letting a kid off for speeding…

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/31/05 at 01:26 AM from United States

They did not, but apparently that’s not a part of the procedure.

Yeah, it is, as your own statements in the next sentences show. If a conversation isn’t date-time stamped, and identifying all parties speaking, it is meaningless in court. Of course, your attorney should have explained all that to you.

So no one spoke their names “on the record”, and your only evidence that any recording ever took place was that you saw someone popping a tape in a VCR machine. And yet you still think that your assumptions are actually facts.

You’re still an idiot. (If I’m sitting at a typewriter, that doesn’t mean I’m writing a novel.)

I’ve wasted enough time slapping you around. I’m going to bed. Oh, and one more time, just for the record, fuck you, rapist.

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/31/05 at 01:27 AM from United States

(And yes, there are *truckloads* of crazy broads out there who pull this crap, in every walk of life. You don’t even have to be in a relationship with them to get into their line of fire. As a matter of fact, wives up and murder their husbands every bit as often as men go nuts and whack their wives, media portrayal not withstanding.)

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 01:30 AM from United States

the problem is usually incompetent officials who got their jobs through political favors

We got plenty of that too. The more abusive of the two cops who interrogated me was the brother of a lieutenant on the same PD. I smell nepotism…

The same week a family member of mine was arrested on false claims of home invasion (and immediately bailed out) on a case so assinine the judge stormed out of court to get a cup of water, screeching about wasting his time on “the case of the century”, a woman was on the front page who had gotten her ex-husband arrested and locked up for months (just in waiting for his trial) by going out back and beating her own head against a tree trunk. The only thing that kept him out of prison was that somebody had actually *seen* her beating her head against the same tree, the same way that the only thing that kept my relative out of the clink was a pastor’s testimony confirming where he was that morning. (The local Women’s Center supported her to the bitter end, when she fled to Canada after her husband realized she was full of it and threw her out.)

I might have been screwed if my phone records didn’t prove I never called this crazy kid. She said I was calling her. Verizon does not maintain records of local calls. Optimum voice maintains records of all calls. Fortunately, I had optimum voice and was able to prove that I never called her. She had even told detectives that she saw my name in her callerID box, eliminating the possibility that I had used a payphone. Additionally, my phone records proved I was home and on other calls at the times she alleges I called her.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 01:34 AM from United States

Yeah, it is, as your own statements in the next sentences show. If a conversation isn’t date-time stamped, and identifying all parties speaking, it is meaningless in court. Of course, your attorney should have explained all that to you.

Noooo I explained that the girl’s videotaped testimony had no such explicet date and time nonsense. And it is admissable as data to cross reference with the witness’ testimony on the stand. For instance, if she starts talking on the stand and tells events out of order, an attorney can call her on that.

I’ve wasted enough time slapping you around. I’m going to bed. Oh, and one more time, just for the record, fuck you, rapist.

You’re pathetic. You get off on cursing off someone a zillion miles away who can’t possibly know who you are. You tell me to grow up but you resort to all this juvenile namecalling.

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/31/05 at 01:37 AM from United States

We got plenty of that too. The more abusive of the two cops who interrogated me was the brother of a lieutenant on the same PD. I smell nepotism…

If it makes you feel any better, in the 2004 election, our local sherriff’s deputies went to pay a little visit to old ladies with Republican signs in their yards, explaining that with those types of “obstructive” lawn ornaments, it might “impede police response should any emergency arise”. There is no longer a corner of this state that is free from Chicago-style politics, but 2006 promises to be a bloody cleansing if the state GOP can get their shit together. (Which is like suggesting Lucas’s next Star Wars will be better, but hey.)

Posted by Manwhore on 05/31/05 at 01:39 AM from United States

I think it is more that this kind of crime you were accused of instantly makes you seem like a creep, and the cops think that they can fore go your rights because no one will care.

It is really easy to call a little girl with doe eyes a victime and make you a criminal in the eyes of the law. I have heard of children making these accusations just because they wanted attention, or if they got a bad grade.

I would say the teaching children is a dangerous business, if we stay as litigious as we are without need for proof.

You really got lucky. It could be worse and if it is as bad as you say I would counter sue the police force for ruining your life, and the parents of that little brat for the legal fees.

Don’t get mad, get even. There has to be some forked tongue ambulance chaser willing to take that kind of case.

I do agree that Cops and the legal system are about as scummy as the slime they handle, but argueing that out with Drum isnt going to solve anything.

He sees the cup half full.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 01:39 AM from United States

And yes, there are *truckloads* of crazy broads out there who pull this crap, in every walk of life. You don’t even have to be in a relationship with them to get into their line of fire. As a matter of fact, wives up and murder their husbands every bit as often as men go nuts and whack their wives, media portrayal not withstanding.

There’s some scary facts out there man. There’s a real problem with the system because instead of giving the defendant the benefit of the doubt, it gives that assumption to the accuser. The net result is that defense attorneys have to figure out why the accuser might lie. As a consequence, truth-tellers are ripped apart along with the liars.

Giving the benefit of the doubt to the accuser only lends itself to attorneys going on a very aggressive defense against the victim/accuser.

I don’t have a suggestion of how to fix this but it is just another broken facet of the system.

Posted by Seth on 05/31/05 at 01:42 AM from United States

Drew, my “man”
You’re obviously trying to equate Jersey(Atlantic City) casino security with Nevada’s, you dumbshit.
We did everything in Nevada from cuffing and stuffing to filling out ALL the police forms(Probable Cause, Criminal Complaint, etc, plus witness statements, chain-of-custody-of-evidence logs, investigators’ reports where necessary), plus working with the DA’s office to prosecute the crimes in question. All the police did was swap cuffs and get us a case number, then transport the prisoner.

When I was in Atlantic City, I strolled through casinos at Resorts, the Taj Mahal and a few others and watched as the turkeytime “security” people there walked obliviously by a whole lot of stuff even a deaf, dumb and blind Nevada casino security officer would have spotted in his/ her sleep. I could have given a tour.

You are, as the average Parisian weasel would say, “Full of zee shit.”

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 01:44 AM from United States

Don’t get mad, get even. There has to be some forked tongue ambulance chaser willing to take that kind of case.

It’s not a frivolous case. And the ambulance chaser will be one of the most honorable men I know, my brother.

I do agree that Cops and the legal system are about as scummy as the slime they handle, but argueing that out with Drum isnt going to solve anything.

He sees the cup half full.

He believes what he wants to believe. I wish he were right. I’d like to believe as he does. Idealism is good for th soul. I can’t believe in any of that any more. Trust has been shattered.

If it makes you feel any better, in the 2004 election, our local sherriff’s deputies went to pay a little visit to old ladies with Republican signs in their yards, explaining that with those types of “obstructive” lawn ornaments, it might “impede police response should any emergency arise”.

Doesn’t make me feel better at all!! Goddamnit! Arghh!! Oh brother..

*shakes fist in air in direction of Illonois*

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 01:47 AM from United States

you dumbshit

How in the hell does not knowing this random crap make me a dumbshit?

Oh that’s right you were just self aggrandizing yourself because I put you down… whoops.

Posted by Seth on 05/31/05 at 01:53 AM from United States

No, I was making a point. Your own limited geographic experience, for example. In Atlantic City, casino security people have to 911 every time a problem needs addressing.
In Nevada, however…

But in all fairness, and being as PC as I am able to be, I have no option but to conclude that you are a Richard Cranium.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 02:02 AM from United States

I don’t hang out in casinos. You said you worked security. Security guards usually do exactly what you just described.

I’m sure most people assume as much. Rent-a-cops usually call the real cops to do most of the paperwork you described.

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/31/05 at 02:10 AM from United States

I think two problems with the system from a public perspective are that #1) We allow the private sector to use arrests without convictions against people, and that #2) It’s extremely difficult for the wrongfully accused and falsely arrested to seek compensation and clear their names. I agree totally on that point.

I’ve noticed Drum once or twice make the ludicrous assertion that “Well, if you got off, then the system worked!”, but that’s simply not so. Spend 20 years on death row getting raped up the ass, then say that. Or even ask Roderick Pritchett, a black artist and laid off stock broker who spent days in Cook County lockup (and the accompanying horror indignations of delousing, urethral swabbing, etc), years in court, and couldn’t get an apartment or work, before finally being acquitted after being arrested for “brandishing a firearm” when he was pulled over and warned the officers he was carrying, as a courtesy. (He was carrying it using a form of the “fanny pack” method popular statewide. Daley’s apes, the same guys who once escorted bulldozers to illegally demolish an airport at midnight according to His Will, just didn’t like anybody having a firearm on their turf.)

It was never the intent of the Founders that we could all have our lives swept away at any time on the whim of whatever nut is willing to sign a complaint to a vaguely written law that is totally dependent on the discretion of an overworked and politically pressured prosecutor. Glenn Reynolds has written about this, too: We need to start with writing fewer, clearer laws to replace the current everything-is-a-crime-if-you-want-it-to-be mess.

And for what it’s worth, the idiocy in Illinois is bipartisan: Read up on Eric Zorn’s Murder in Paris columns. State troopers had their careers ruined by other state troopers for trying to speak up over this “politically sensitive” double murder case, it’s sick how often good cops are undermined and demeaned by the machine, and it’s small wonder they so often retire early to leave those who cooperate with it in charge.

Whole state needs an enema, and maybe a good series of FBI raids through Springfield.

Posted by Manwhore on 05/31/05 at 02:17 AM from United States

He believes what he wants to believe. I wish he were right. I’d like to believe as he does. Idealism is good for th soul. I can’t believe in any of that any more. Trust has been shattered.

If less people believed as he did there might be some progress in judicial reform.

Many people instantly are on the side of the cops to a fault, and it shows when abuses of power happen.

Things will change.

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/31/05 at 02:18 AM from United States

Oh, the highlight of the Pritchett case:

It was then that the judge cut the microphone and later, we were told, the judge told Maksym to make sure he has control of “his people” as the judge didn’t “want any outbursts from any down-state Second-Amendment fanatics.”

When Pritchett was acquitted, the spectators cheered, and were promptly expelled from the courtroom by security.

Land of Lincoln, oh yeah.

Posted by Seth on 05/31/05 at 02:20 AM from United States

The idea was to consummate the arrests in their entirety, rather than take cops off the street to fill out paperwork.
It has worked out well from the inception: We performed our own bomb searches, performed CPR and serious first aid on scores and scores of occasions, snatched up a lot of wanted felons + felons performing their felonies on our property, including busting numerous counterfeiters, protected our principal against fraudulent and overstated lawsuits, caught cheaters, scammers, frauds, pickpockets, coin cup, rack and handbag thieves, money launderers and had a lot of dealings with such agencies as the Bureau and the Secret Service. Before becoming a shift supervisor, when I was an investigator in the Security Department, I solved a significant embezzlement case in the Cage and Credit Department and a five digits per month pilferage case in the Food & Beverage Department, convicted a Pit Manager of embezzlement and saved the casino around twenty million in bullshit lawsuits.

And when all is said and done, you, Drew, are still a child molester....

So don’t

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 02:24 AM from United States

I’ve noticed Drum once or twice make the ludicrous assertion that “Well, if you got off, then the system worked!”, but that’s simply not so.

What you described makes my six months of limbo seem pale in comparison. I wasted a lot of time, expended a lot of cash I didn’t have, and now have to rebuild some sort of life for myself. I know teaching won’t feel right again. I can’t go back to it and be on edge the whole time. I suppose choosing a career is a good problem to have considering I could be NOT choosing a cellmate or a prison. At the same time, I think most people fail to appreciate just how bad the damage to my life has been.

We need to start with writing fewer, clearer laws to replace the current everything-is-a-crime-if-you-want-it-to-be mess.

Criminal codes have grown so much over the last 10-20 years that you couldn’t be more right. One trick the prosecutor’s office tried to pull on me was to attempt to charge me with a dozen different things and then hope a jury will compromise to let one stick.

Posted by Seth on 05/31/05 at 02:26 AM from United States

Anyway, I have to go.
I’ve been neglecting a beautiful woman for too long, and while she’s enjoying reading as I type…

So don’t try to act like a normal person, you’re not. I’ll bet you’re even rooting for your colleague, Michael Jackson.

Later.

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/31/05 at 02:31 AM from United States

Oh, man, I’d forgotten what a clusterfuck the Pritchett thing was:

The judge did stop, right in the middle of testimony from the witness stand, to take a phone call (this was the second time since I arrived he did this). “Whoa. This is not a recess. I’ll be back in thirty seconds. Just sit tight.”.......The questioning dragged on, despite the judge repeatedly (and inappropriately in some cases, IMHO) saying, “Come on, let’s go” in an effort to rush the bench trial. Oh, and the prosecution objected to about 50% of Maksym’s questions. In fact, Maksym asked Pritchett if he had a FOID card and they objected to that!!! (And it was sustained!)...Maksym had apparently attempted to enter into evidence the State Police brochure on “How to transport your gun legally” (Objection!! sustained) and a copy of the IL law (Objection, sustained) and a few other items that demonstrated that Roderick knew the real law and was trying (was in fact) to comply with the law in transporting his gun....

It was at that point the judge gave up and threw the whole thing out and basically told Pritchett, through vague, threatening talk about choosing which friends he listens to carefully, that he needs to quit worrying about the actual law and start doing what Mayor Daley wants him to do.

So yeah, there are *lots* of causes for serious concern about the nature of the justice system, and I’ve never found Drum’s faith in the process all that encouraging.

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/31/05 at 02:33 AM from United States

At the same time, I think most people fail to appreciate just how bad the damage to my life has been.

And that’s just it: People think getting acquitted for a crime is like it is in the old movies, where everybody applauds for the innocent man wrongfully accused and he returns to his normal life with the support of his community, and it couldn’t be less so.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 02:34 AM from United States

And when all is said and done, you, Drew, are still a child molester....

So don’t

What on earth could you possibly be basing that on? I was already exonerated in a court of law. Are you just being contrary or does it make you feel good, just like it makes drum feel good, to talk big to someone on the other side of the country.

So don’t try to act like a normal person, you’re not.

harvey you’re proving Aaron’s point about the lasting stigma attached to such accusations.

Posted by Lee on 05/31/05 at 02:42 AM from United States

I have to admit that I really haven’t kept up with these discussions with Drew and his legal woes.  Can someone sum it up for me in a few sentences or so?

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/31/05 at 02:47 AM from United States

Lee: The short version is that Drew was arrested by police in NJ for some crime involving a young woman, and he apparently contends that the broad was making it up and the cops and prosecution proceeded to fuck the case up so badly that they then destroyed the evidence of their incompetence (which was also the evidence that it was a lie).

Drum, for some reason, seems to think this kind of thing is rare. I can’t speak for Drew’s case, but this shit happens daily in Illinois. That’s *why* Ryan commuted the sentences of all 156 of our death row inmates.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 02:55 AM from United States

6 months ago I was teacher. I was accused, by a 16 year old girl, of aggressively putting the moves on her. Charges were filed despite a lack of evidence. Evidence later proved the girl was lying. More evidence proved the girl was a pathological liar. Despite all this information coming out, the prosecution refused to dismiss the case. It is my estimation, and said estimation is based on the advice of a number of attorneys and former cops who served as my investigators, that the prosecution refused to drop the case because the cops fucked up so badly. They had hoped to bully me into taking a plea by threatening to levy additional charges. Their goal was to gloss the situation over with a plea so that I couldn’t sue.

Less than two weeks ago, the case, additional charges and all, was thrown out by a Grand Jury. It’s pretty much the cleanest exoneration a guy can get, because a grand jury only idicts, it doesn’t convict. The burden of proof on the prosecutor is lightest at the Grand Jury level.

I’ve been bitching and moaning and going back and forth with Drumwaster since he got me to start talking about the whole thing. Basically, my position is that law enforcement, in general, is totally fucked. There are just massive systemic problems that allow horrible things to happen and allow corruption (like protecting cops by bullying defendants) to take place. Cops refuse to acknowledge it when other cops do wrong. There’s a line between “us” and “them” with the cops.

Drumwaster refuses to address this, instead calling me a rapist a lot and trying to bait me into saying that ALL cops are greasy scumbags. I think most cops are loyal first to each other, then to the law. I also think urban cops have a tough job and I respect them for doing it.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 02:57 AM from United States

That’s *why* Ryan commuted the sentences of all 156 of our death row inmates.

My experiences have made me decidedly anti-death penalty except in cases where the person admits they committed the crime and there is corroborating evidence.

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/31/05 at 03:10 AM from United States

About those urban cops, drewdog, and, for that matter, the confessions with corroborating evidence: 4 of the death row inmates under Ryan were pardoned entirely, as they were gotten hold of by a gang of crooked Chicago police detectives who liked to chain inner city kids to walls, suffocate them with plastic bags, stick guns in their mouths, and shock their genitals with electrical generators until they signed confessions, then manufacture evidence.

So, like I said, Drum has to pardon my skepticism. I didn’t agree with Ryan’s blanket commutation then and I don’t agree with it now, since the blanket decision was as arbitrary as the system he was critical of, but I sure as hell don’t blame him for acting. Nobody flushed these guys Koran’s down the toilet or rode them around on leashes with panties on their heads: They were actually tortured. The ringleader was fired in ‘93. God save Illinois, etc.

I never agreed with your earlier position that all cops, or even most, were crooked, but there are sure as hell some major institutions of justice that have no business enforcing law against the people: The law needs to be enforced against them.

Posted by Lee on 05/31/05 at 03:10 AM from United States

Allow me to throw in my two cents here.  When I was in college, among the circle of friends I hung out with were two guys called Brian and Erick.  After I dropped out of college and joined the Navy, Erick and Brian both graduated college, and Brian was engaged to be married.  The two guys went out drinking one night and met a couple of chicks, who were roommates.  They ended up back at the girls’ apartment.

Brian’s chick said she was tired and decided to go to bed.  Erick’s chick then said that she was in the mood for a threesome, so Brian and Erick proceeded to team up on her.  So far so good.  So, when it’s over they split.  The next morning there’s a knock on their doors, and both of them are arrested for rape.  Apparently the girl had had second thoughts about the wisdom of having a threesome.  To make matters worse, her father was a cop, and she called him and told him what happened.

So, it gets down to a case of he-said/she-said.  There was no overt evidence of a rape (bruising, assault, etc.) The girls invited the two of them into her apartment, and so on.  However, Brian had a conviction for something he did when he was in high school. 

In Texas they offer something called Deferred Adjudication.  It’s sort of like probation.  I’m not 100% sure of this, but I believe the legal difference is that with DA you aren’t found guilty, whereas with probation you are found guilty and probation is your sentence.  DA, in essence, defers the trial and sentencing until after a period of probation.  The judge says “Okay, we’re not going to do anything with this.  If you can keep your nose clean for X number of years, then we’ll just dismiss the whole thing and wipe your record clean.”

I don’t know what it was that Brian did for which he received DA, but it must have been something serious.

During the whole rape investigation, Brian got married.  Shortly after this, he was contacted by the law in his old hometown.  The judge had received word of his involvement in a potential rape. 

End result:  Brian, recent college graduate with a new wife, just starting out his adult life, got sent to prison for ten years.  And this wasn’t candy-ass prison, either.  He did his time in Huntsville, which is where Texas carries out its executions.  Maximum security.

From what I heard his wife stuck by him for a while, but she eventually divorced him.  I guess he’s out now, but he’s a convicted felon with a 10 year stretch on his record.

It’s worth noting that nothing ever came of the rape charges for either Erick or Brian.

Posted by Sean M. on 05/31/05 at 03:14 AM from United States

drew,
I hope you will contact the DOJ, because if your allegations are true, they’ll likely be interested in investigating.

Furthermore, the kind of cops an prosecutors I’ve met (not just on a personal level--I sometimes deal with them professionally) wouldn’t want to be associated with the kind of people you’re talking about.

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/31/05 at 03:21 AM from United States

Sean: So far, nothing has motivated DoJ to blow in the doors on Illinois. What makes you think they’ll take the time for this, what with so many more pressing issues occupying their time, like the prosecution of illegal aliens?

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 03:47 AM from United States

Drew
I will have to inform my aunt that her husband (the one killed in the line of duty) was just a lazy no account rural officer whose only job was to torment minorities and bother teachers.  I will tell my cousins that they are better off now that he is dead and out of their lives.  I will call my mother and have her read your words because I am sure that will help relieve her grief over his murder.

Sorry for the sarcasm but I am so tired of Drew’s commentary about rural cops.  I live in a rural area and can only thank the men and women who serve these areas.  When they get called out to a scene of a crime, many times they are on their own.  They don’t have a partner or back up right away like a big city cop would have.  This is what happened to my uncle.  He was shot as he was coming out of his car and didn’t have anyone to help him out.  He might have lived if he had someone with him or lived closer to the hospital to get help faster.  He lost too much blood and died.

Drum is correct in pointing out the flaw in Drew’s logic.

Posted by Sean M. on 05/31/05 at 04:02 AM from United States

Aaron,
I gave him a link to the Special Litigation Section of the DOJ Civil Rights Division, which is interested in the conduct of law enforcement agencies, among other things.  Maybe, if drew has a case, they’ll look into it.  Maybe there’s not enough evidence.  I don’t know.

As for “the prosecution of illegal aliens,” why shouldn’t the authorities be involved in that?  We’ve got people on terrorist watch lists crossing the Rio Grande, not to mention illegal aliens who kill cops here in SoCal and then flee back to Mexico because of anti-extradition laws that allow Mexico to keep felons there if there’s the slightest chance that the poor dears might face the death penalty.

I dislike crooked cops, but I’m a lot more worried about foreign criminals and/or terrorists sneaking across our borders and being allowed to stay here.

Posted by mikeguas on 05/31/05 at 04:30 AM from United States

Drew,

I hate the state troopers who never once get out of their cars except to write a ticket because all they do is highway patrol (In NJ they mostly pull over minorities, although they have gotten a bit better about that) I have plenty of hatred for the cops who don’t really work for a living.

And….

A man who recently was fired from his job at an elementary school is accused of shooting a state highway patrol trooper nine times after a traffic stop.

What a lazy cop. Too lazy to dodge bullets I guess. Nine bullets and the guy doesn’t even work for a living.

par for the course when the other 364 days a year they loaf around in big Crown Victorias looking for a minority to bother

I got pulled over a couple of times by the cops for no real reason. One time I was doing 55 (when that was the limit), and I was wearing my seatbelt. He pulled me over anyhow, and said I was not wearing my seatbelt. I don’t know how the hell he could tell anyhow. He hassled me for about ½ hour before finally let me go with some bogus fix it ticket for a cracked back light reflector. I was going to claim racism, but it turned out I was white. I just write that one off as a prick cop, and not the whole force. If I were a minority, I guess it could have been a national tragedy. I have a couple of other bullshit instances as well, but that’s life.

Drew,

Too bad you’re not white. If that girl made the same claim against a white teacher, they would have put you on house arrest in an upscale penthouse, and offered you fine wine and cigars during interrogation.

At first I have to admit I kinda felt sorry for you, as she may have well made this up. It does happen. The fact is a girl claimed you attempted to assault her. The first reaction from most people, cop or otherwise, is to believe the kid. Right or wrong, that is human nature. After all is said and done, you could help fix the system by going after her and her family in court if she did lie. If the court does its job, she should and will be punished if she went after you with a bogus story. This would help deter others from making false accusations. You’re killing me with the racial aspect though. I bet you’re getting ready to sue the cops. If this is the case, why not the girl instead?

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 08:01 AM from United States

In Texas they offer something called Deferred Adjudication.  It’s sort of like probation.  I’m not 100% sure of this, but I believe the legal difference is that with DA you aren’t found guilty, whereas with probation you are found guilty and probation is your sentence.  DA, in essence, defers the trial and sentencing until after a period of probation.  The judge says “Okay, we’re not going to do anything with this.  If you can keep your nose clean for X number of years, then we’ll just dismiss the whole thing and wipe your record clean.”

In NJ it’s called PTI (Pre=Trial Intervention). The offer was made to me. I politely told them to fuck off. I refused to have a hand in what amounted to a railroad job.

I will have to inform my aunt that her husband (the one killed in the line of duty) was just a lazy no account rural officer whose only job was to torment minorities and bother teachers.

What a lazy cop. Too lazy to dodge bullets I guess. Nine bullets and the guy doesn’t even work for a living.

I reiterate: being a policeman is not the most dangerous job in America. Death on the job can happen to just about anyone. Do we talk about the heroism of cabbies in NYC or the bravery of lumberjacks? Does this strengthen our support for them to the point where we believe they can do no wrong?

At first I have to admit I kinda felt sorry for you, as she may have well made this up. It does happen. The fact is a girl claimed you attempted to assault her. The first reaction from most people, cop or otherwise, is to believe the kid.

Well enough. But they had leads on evidence that would later clear my name. I should know: I gave it to them. What made matters a million times worse was the attempt to gloss the job by the prosecutor’s office after it became real obvious that I was innocent. That heaps “corruption” on top of a much more tolerable “incompetance.”

After all is said and done, you could help fix the system by going after her and her family in court if she did lie. If the court does its job, she should and will be punished if she went after you with a bogus story.

The big “if” is “If the court does its job...” As Aaron was mentioning, recouping losses in court is a long and painful process in itself.

You’re killing me with the racial aspect though. I bet you’re getting ready to sue the cops. If this is the case, why not the girl instead?

I can sue both and plan to. Believe it or not I’m probably going to sue the girl first.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 08:05 AM from United States

It’s worth noting that nothing ever came of the rape charges for either Erick or Brian.

Fucked up shit. The system is really working backwards when people accused certain types of crimes must prove their innocence, but that’s generally the rule with any type of sex case. The defendant has to prove why his accuser would lie.

Like I said before, I don’t have a solution to this particular facet, but it’s somehting that needs to be fixed.

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/31/05 at 09:00 AM from United States

As for “the prosecution of illegal aliens,” why shouldn’t the authorities be involved in that?

I think the screaming irony rushed past you on this one: My point was that while they should be doing this, it appears that nobody is.

After all is said and done, you could help fix the system by going after her and her family in court if she did lie. If the court does its job, she should and will be punished if she went after you with a bogus story.

If believing that helps somebody sleep at night.

Posted by Kilroy on 05/31/05 at 11:02 AM from United States

Drewdognj,

I don’t know if you see Drumwasters point or not, but let me try to help.  Take your anger out on those that have wronged you.  When you make broad sweeping allegations against over 300,000 people you should like a racist twit.  If a black man mugs me should I hate all black men, or should I hold that ONE man accountable? 

My personal story time, When I started in law enforcement I worked for a suburban town outside Washington D.C.  It was the most fucked up place I have every worked for.  You want to talk about corruption, I have some stories for you.  Now I didn’t play the game.  Many of us didn’t play the game.  I spoke with the Department Of Justice twice.  I didn’t call no tip line. I had sit down conversations with them about the corruption.  Now did I get retaliated against?  There were several times I called for back up and none of those fuckers would show, but the honest cops would.

Now I quit and moved back to the mid-west and I work for a very honest hard working department.  The administration has fired several officers for stupid shit they did, and no one lied for them.  I called one of my friends that still work for that shit hole department.  Four officers are now in jail and the Chief was fired.  He should have gone to jail, that pice of shit played stupid, and he knew what was going on. 

My point is that if you drove bye me you would say, “Look at that corrupt pig.” So fuck you, you have no idea the shit I went thru.  I didn’t, nor did the other officers protect those fucktards.  So I agree with Drumwaster.  You need to grow up. 

Aaron is also right things need to changed, and I have some great ideas on how to change them.  It is a system that’s crying for reform, and needs reform.  I will be the first on this blog to state that, but when you call me and the other honest cops “pigs” I refuse to listen to your argument.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/31/05 at 11:07 AM from United States

You are all full of shit.

Drew’s EXTREMELY LIMITED experiences with a single county of a single State DOES NOT translate into equalling his assertion that ALL

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/31/05 at 11:11 AM from United States

cops and prosecutors EVERYWHERE are corrupt and out to get minorities.

Drew is just too fucking blinded with his own hatred to realize that he is making an awful lot of stew from one oyster.

YES, there are bad cops. Just like there are teachers who rape little kids under their control.

If all cops are guilty because of one bad experience, then all teachers are rapists.

QED.

Of course, dumbfuck Drew (and his whipping boy, boywhore) don’t have the brains to understand that one bad experience DOES NOT equal 100% reality.

If he actually has a case (rather than the frequent assumptions he keeps asserting as fact, then theorizing a comprehensive cover-up to explain why his assumptions are not actually true), then I wish him the best, but until he starts to comprehend that not all cops are like that, then I hope he gets robbed repeatedly, and ignored by his local police. He deserves no less.

Posted by Kilroy on 05/31/05 at 11:30 AM from United States

I had some bad fries from Wendies yesterday.  So fuck all Wendies.  They all make crappie fries.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 12:00 PM from United States

I don’t know if you see Drumwasters point or not, but let me try to help.  Take your anger out on those that have wronged you.

I will. I only talked about on this thread because Drum, ever the firebrand, baited me into it because he enjoys going on mean spirited rants when he has zero facts.

My point is that if you drove bye me you would say, “Look at that corrupt pig.” So fuck you, you have no idea the shit I went thru.  I didn’t, nor did the other officers protect those fucktards.  So I agree with Drumwaster.  You need to grow up.

Aaron is also right things need to changed, and I have some great ideas on how to change them.  It is a system that’s crying for reform, and needs reform.

Just about all of Jersey is as you described. I hope you’re being truthful about how things are in the town you’re in now. I would love to know what makes it different out there.  I’d love to know what the differences are that make systemic corruption not an issue there. I would also love to hear an insiders recommendations for how to change the corruption. If you’re saying cops outside NJ are better, I’d love to know why. I’ve experienced cops from all over this state and found that in all the times I was pulled over, etc. I only had two fair experiences with a cop. One of those times I got a rightly deserved ticket. What happened to me was done as much by the prosecutor’s office as by the cops themselves. That’s an indication of a problem on the county level. Every professional in NJ that I talked to agreed that this is a huge problem.

If all cops are guilty because of one bad experience, then all teachers are rapists

Nooooo that’s not quite right. I’m talking about the systemic problem whereby cops (and for now I’ll limit the scope of what I’m talking about to Jersey) cover for other cops, no matter how grand the fuck up is. This is a huge issue. It goes beyond the criminality of one or two cops. It’s an issue that the system in fact encourages.

ignored by his local police

I would only call the police to tell them to pick up the body if someone tried to rob me or my family. I flat out don’t trust them.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/31/05 at 12:23 PM from United States

I only had two fair experiences with a cop.

I guess they must have been off their game that day, or else they didn’t recognize you as the rapist you admit to being. Because all cops are corrupt and evil, isn’t that what you have been REPEATEDLY saying?

Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, you are too blinded by that hatred of your ONE BAD EXPERIENCE to realize how fucking stupid you sound making overly broad generalizations about conditions you have never experienced, places you have never been and people you have never met.

Every professional in NJ that I talked to agreed that this is a huge problem.

Every professional (and here is the important part you keep failing to comprehend) IN NEW JERSEY. Is it stupidity or sheer arrogance that makes you think that the whole world consists of that smokestack-filled bit o’ heaven? Here’s a clue, since you seem to be incapable of picking one up on your own: THERE ARE OTHER PLACES IN THE WORLD THAN THAT SEWER DUMP WITH A CAPITOL BUILDING.

Do you get it yet?

I’m talking about the systemic problem whereby cops (and for now I’ll limit the scope of what I’m talking about to Jersey) cover for other cops, no matter how grand the fuck up is.

By George, I think he’s got it! One little thing, though. I’d drop the “for now” bit, because until you actually leave that little bitty spot you call home (and the rest of the world calls “Whaddayamean, I gotta go ta Joisey?"), you have no idea what the cops or legal systems are like elsewhere. Hell, New Jersey’s barely larger than Riverside County (with five times the population), and it’s less than 1/5 the size of San Bernardino County, yet you pretend to know what “rural” actually is. You haven’t got a clue what it means to measure the distance to the next town in ‘hours’ rather than ‘exits’.

But I’ll tell ya what, you keep thinking like that, and maybe you’ll begin to realize what a monumental asshat you have been.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 12:35 PM from United States

Drum,

You’re a dumbass. I’ve been saying this for some time. My experience is limited to Dirty Jersey. I just don’t see what systemic differences are in place elsewhere that would make there be any less of systemic problem.

the rapist you admit to being

When did I admit that? Oh that’s right. You’re making it up. You’re a dumbass.

THERE ARE OTHER PLACES IN THE WORLD THAN THAT SEWER DUMP WITH A CAPITOL BUILDING.

Very clever. Mock the state in order to discredit the resident. NJ does have rural areas. I didn’t say it was Iowa, but such places do exist in much of the state. It’s not all smokestacks and pollution.

You continue to ignore the question: Is there a systemic problem whereby police cover up each others mistakes? Is there a line between “us” and “them?”

I don’t see the reason why it should be different elsewhere. You’re saying it is. I’d like to believe you. I once believed it was better here in NJ. I won’t be so naive again.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/31/05 at 12:51 PM from United States

My experience is limited to Dirty Jersey.

Yet you still claim that your experiences are proof of totality of corruption. You don’t see a logical disconnect there? Because everyone else DOES.

Mock the state in order to discredit the resident.

No, that resident is quite discredited enough. I mock the State because I’ve been there and seen what it’s like. If I had to live there, I would probably start abusing random strangers, too. Fortunately, I don’t.

I don’t see the reason why it should be different elsewhere.

Different conditions, different people, different laws, JUST FUCKING DIFFERENT. Yet you “see no reason why”? That’s only because you refuse to open your eyes.

I won’t be so naive again.

No, you’ve gone to the opposite extreme. You’re stereotyping based on one bad incident. The equivalent would be if I got into an auto accident with a young Hispanic kid, and I immediately started yelling obscenities at everyone who has a darker skin “because they are all drug dealers, pimps, gang bangers, and junkies”.

Sound fair? You may have gotten screwed over by “Da Man”. From what you have told us, you gave up your rights, made lots of assumptions, and still managed to avoid having to go to jail. That doesn’t mean that the Deputy who is off rescuing a family whose car has broken down out on I-10 is a corrupt racist pig who deserves to die. But that’s what you kept saying, over and over again. I can only hope that you are starting to understand the point I have been trying to hammer you with all day yesterday.

If you can’t see past the end of your own nose, then I sentence you to live in that head. The rest of the world will get along quite well without you.

Now, am I saying that there are no corrupt cops anywhere? Of course not. I know that there are. (I’ve even known a few myself.) But they are nowhere near being in the majority, and most of the cops I have known would turn in anyone who breaks the law, including their fellow officers. If it was a 0pandemic (like you are alleging), then take it up the chain. Sooner or later, you will run into someone with enough clout to actually look into it. If not, try calling the newspapers. They lurve a juicy cop corruption scandal.

But I don’t judge every single cop everywhere on those damned few bad ones. You do.

Think about it.

Posted by Kilroy on 05/31/05 at 12:57 PM from United States

I hope you’re being truthful about how things are in the town you’re in now. I would love to know what makes it different out there.

Money and community involvement, People pay a lot of taxes out here and the demand that is spent wisely.  A administration that demands the truth. 

Last firing.  A Sergeant cusses during a traffic stop.  He goes back and rewinds the tape and the recorder.  No one called to complain about the traffic stop.  Someone reviewed the tapes, and saw the blip in the tape.  They pulled the dispatch tapes of the time of the stop.  The administration asked him what happened he said he hit a bump.  (Or something, that’s the rumor} The administration said good bye.  It is just not tolerated with this department like my past one.  I am not saying that fucked up things don’t happen, but they are dealt with.

I would also love to hear an insiders recommendations for how to change the corruption.

Just some brief things.

Number one, bring back the mental heath facilities.  County jails are not and can not deal with the influx of the mentally ill.

Number Two, decriminalize MJ. use them money off the sale of MJ and put it into drug rehab facilities.  All the money, not to roads, to schools not to pet projects.  Warehousing drug offenders is just a waste of money.  They need treatment and hope for a better life. 

Mental Heath, Mental Health, Mental Health, need more of this in all stages of Law Enforcement.

Number Three, get ride of waste of time laws, seat belt, porn, smoking, not mowing my lawn.  etc....

Number Four, treat people as you want to be treated.  I know this is hard.  I have dealt with people that need a bullet to the head.

Their are to many dick head cops.  I know this, A local city cop pulled over my wife.  When I found him we almost went to blows. The crap he did was just stupid, and I work with many assholes, locker room allot of fun sometimes, also they might be assholes but they are not corrupt.  (I am always on watch, you don’t know anyone that well.  I am not going thu that ride again)

I have many more.

On your story.  Trust me I know, I have seen some really fucked up stuff, but one must find those who are accountable and hold them to it.  When you insult every cop, you will be dismissed as a loon.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 01:06 PM from United States

Different conditions, different people, different laws, JUST FUCKING DIFFERENT. Yet you “see no reason why”? That’s only because you refuse to open your eyes.

You sound frustrated. Tell me a specific difference.

I can only hope that you are starting to understand the point I have been trying to hammer you with all day yesterday.

I will never see your “point” as your experiences are even more limited than mine. This is way different than racism because cops are not a racial group. They aren’t a group of random people lumped together with nothing in common but skin color. They are a group of people who specifically chose a certain career and who have all be trained and geared by the same system. Sure the systems may vary from state to state, but I fail to see what specific difference will make a cop from California any less corrupt or abusive than one from NJ. For all I know, they could be worse.

If it was a 0pandemic (like you are alleging), then take it up the chain. Sooner or later, you will run into someone with enough clout to actually look into it.

It will be done. Timing is key. I’m awaiting paperwork.

If not, try calling the newspapers. They lurve a juicy cop corruption scandal.

That’s a final card to play. It’s not the first one you show. First fo all, I’ve got to continue getting all my ducks in a row in terms of evidence. Secondly, that could be the threat I could issue when dealing with these people and trying to get some justice for myself. If I go to the papers right now, they’ll be forcibly entrenched. I’d rather have the card and use it manipulate them against each other.

But I don’t judge every single cop everywhere on those damned few bad ones. You do.

Think about it.

I spoke to the cops frankly, honestly, and without an attorney believing as you do. That was a mistake. I won’t be so naive again. I will never trust another cop as long as I live. The system is one where honorable people are few and far between.

A police force in Maryland was mentioned earlier. There were systemic problems. Shit was corrupt. NJ is much the same way. Dishonorable behavior is encouraged either actively or passively. It’s a systemic problem and needs to be addressed.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 02:15 PM from United States

I take a vacation for a few days and I miss all the fireworks.

Drum, you are an ass. But that doesn’t make you incorrect.  You are just an ass when you rant.  Makes for fun reading but puts people on the defensive.  Not complaining though.

Drew, I won’t call you rapist because by this time it’ll be just jumping on the band wagon.

It seems to me that you are judging all police because of what happened to you.  You are saying that this happened to you because of the system and so since the system is such that allows corruption, it must be the same everywhere.  The problem, as it seems to me, is that you blame the system instead of the individuals.

Teachers are unionized.  Just like the whole priest/molestation thing, there are teachers who were just shuffled from one school to the next because the UNION made it so damn expensive to fire a teacher, regardless of why the teacher was being fired.  So here you have a system that protects people who do wrong and makes it incredibly dificult and expensive to fire them no matter the wrong.  Is that not the same kind of thing you are claiming the police of having?

Do teachers stick up for each other?  Maybe yes, maybe no.  There is really no need to, though, since their union can do all that for them.  That is what the union is for, after all.

Now, if there is a system that protects its members, teacher or police, then what would the difference between that system in NJ and that system in, lets say, Bloomington, Minnesota?  Teaching is career that people specifically train for.  Teachers are people who go into that field to become, right?  Like police, right?  The reason Drum is calling you a racist, as I see it, is that because of that one bad apple (your specific case), you are blaming the tree instead of the worm.

The difference would be the people.  You saying the type of people who become cops are people who are looking to be above the law would be like saying that the people who become teachers are looking to be close to children.  People who become police officers do it to protect.  They want to be guardians and heros.  People who want to be teachers do it because they want to teach.  They want to bring knowledge and understanding and help bring about the next set of great thinkers.

And I think THAT is the reason why Drum brought you up.  Here is a guy who is blaming the system.  He is blaming society for his own fucked up behaviour.  YOU are blaming the system.  You are blaming the law enforcement system for your hatred of all police.  It never occured to you that perhaps these corrupt police (as they may be) angled to have a friendly prosecutor (friendly to them or their cause) deal w/ your case?  So maybe it was a few bad people who are at fault, and yet you are SURE that it is the entire SYSTEM at fault.  Its not always the system, so stop blaming the system, stop looking at the system to answer all your questions and take care of all your needs and start looking at the individuals who are responsible.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 02:34 PM from United States

As long as people give cops the benefit of the doubt the system will not be improved. I appreciate what you’re saying, but every single professional I talked to agreed with me on this. The system is outright broken in NJ.

The cops did not “angle” to have a given prosecutor. I got the paperwork on how the assistant prosecutor was chosen. It was a random matter of whose desk the file landed on.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/31/05 at 03:28 PM from United States

Different conditions, different people, different laws, JUST FUCKING DIFFERENT. Yet you “see no reason why”? That’s only because you refuse to open your eyes.

You sound frustrated. Tell me a specific difference.

I’ll repeat, since you obviously can’t understand simple written English. All of the words I used appear in both paper-bound and on-line versions of every English dictionary known to Man, yet you still don’t understand.

Is your native language something other than a human tongue?

First, condition. You live in an area where there are certain societal regularities (such as “Never argue with a guy whose middle name is ‘The’."). Those conditions DO NOR PERTAIN anywhere else in the country. (IOW, criminals are not the one running things.) The “conditions” are DIFFERENT.

Second, people.

Unless you are trying to caim that the only cops on the planet all live and work in Joisey, there are people OTHER than Joiseyites who are also policemen. They grew up in different places, with different teachers and circumstances (both political, religious, social, financial, etc.) That makes them all DIFFERENT, which means they are not all the same. Which means they will respond differently to different circumstances.

Third, laws.

The laws under which Joisey cops operate are NOT the same as they are in any of the remaining 49 States. That means that they would have different procedures for determining credibility of complaining witnesses, different burdens of proof necessary to sustain a charge, and many others.

Are those enough differences for you to concede that things just might be, oh, I dunno, DIFFERENT elsewhere? Or are you so fucking parochial that you think the whole world looks, acts, and will treat you just like dose jagoffs outa Trenton?

I would have suspected one thing, but that was before you revealed yourself as a moron.

The system is outright broken in NJ.

The whole world knows that. But just because your rear tire is flat does not mean that all cars every where are not to be trusted.

Fix the tire, and quit telling the driver of the next car over how fucked up he and his car is just because YOU had a flat tire.

Posted by Matt from Vegas on 05/31/05 at 03:36 PM from United States

Just look at the society we live in.

Only a hippy would say that.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 03:44 PM from United States

Drum, you’re insane tirades still haven’t gotten specific about what makes other systems around the country better. Laws? Okay which laws make it better? People? Okay how is the cultural experience in California superior?

You suggest that criminals run NJ, a la “The Sopranos.” There’s a grain of truth to that, as the mobsters work hand in hand with government officials here. Shall I believe that mobsters can be found nowhere else in the country? Shall I believe these people are all saints after what I’ve been through?

Hell no.

I’ll never trust a cop again. I will not return to naivete.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 04:01 PM from United States

People? Okay how is the cultural experience in California superior?

Superior?  Depends on where at.  But its rather silly to try to say that people in NJ are the same as people in Bloomington, MN, or Minneapolis MN.

There are all sorts of reason people are different.  Be it family or neighborhood, or school, or what s/he ate this morning, or what side of the bed s/he slept in, or whether or not said individual stepped in dog shit that morning, or any number of factors that make you different from me.  PEOPLE are different, and so you can have a run in w/ two cops for NJ and have TOTALLY different experiences, or perhaps the same, just as having a run in w/ a cop from MN may net you a similar or totally different experience.

Stop blaming the system.  And if you never trust a cop again, so be it.  Thats your own prejudice at work and you are entitled to it.  Its obvious no one here will change your mind.  Nor will you change anyone’s mind here that you are blinded by your hatred of police (or certain police.)

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 04:07 PM from United States

Yeah but the whole “people are different thing can cut both ways.” People in Cali or MN could make even WORSE cops for all I know.

I am blaming the system for failure on such a massive scale.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 04:26 PM from United States

Drew, life handed you a pile of shit. I can understand how pissed off you must be.

However (didn’t you know that was coming?)-- you have understandably made this your own personal crusade, but to call this a “failure on such a massive scale” is Grade A ridiculous. It’s (again, understandably) massive to you. But how many cases do these cops investigate in a year? How many criminal cases go before a Grand Jury in this venue every year? If things happened to you as you say, it’s a damn shame, and changes should be made, because no one deserves railroading like you describe.

But you lose a huge amount of support you might have gained when you tar a whole profession, or segments of it, with the same black brush, and you have in this thread, repeatedly. Maybe you don’t like Drum’s style, but you’ve been around here long enough to know how he operates, and he ripped you a new asshole, not because he wanted to, but because you let him. You were wrong in some of the things you said, and you’d see it if it didn’t sting so bad to be shown a fool.

If you’re in the right, I wish you luck. Go take your life back (starting with the girl that accused you, and the school district that presumably bounced you) and stop talking shit about people and jobs you don’t know anything about.

Posted by Matt from Vegas on 05/31/05 at 04:41 PM from United States

Deficiencies in “the system” are not a good excuse to be a stupid asshole.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 04:59 PM from United States

You were wrong in some of the things you said, and you’d see it if it didn’t sting so bad to be shown a fool

I don’t consider myself shown a fool or having been proven wrong. I will not go back to be naive about what goes on because some guy, who has never been through it, named drumwaster, decides that I’m wrong and can’t prove it. He’s naive if he believes that most cops don’t do some dirty shit when things don’t go their way.

I’ve spoken to several attorneys and two hired investigators who were former cops. All agreed that what happened to me was an attempted railroad to cover up the mistakes of two really stupid cops. All agreed that this was common practice when the cops fuck up. They try to bully their way into getting the defendant to take a plea. Should I disregard all of their experience, as well as my firsthand experience, because Drumwaster of all people tells me to?

The system is broken and needs fixing. The longer people deny it and believe that these abuses are just the work of a few bad apples the longer it will take to fix the problems.

Drum says things are different in other states. I hope they are. I’d need to see bona fide proof of it before I believe it. Until then, I’ll continue to distrust the police and suspect their every move.

Deficiencies in “the system” are not a good excuse to be a stupid asshole.

I agree. That doesn’t mean the system doesn’t need fixing.

Posted by on 05/31/05 at 09:57 PM from United States

First of all Aaron, that piece of shit Ryan let some bad people off death row up there in Ill. and you know that. second Manwhore? you sound like you got the shaft to, did you? Drewdog again Fuck you, that all cops are the same, you got busted and now your crying. My old man was PA State trooper for 30 years and use to tell me all sorts of storys you fucking rapos would say, blame the kid cus I’m a respectable citizan, she hit on me , ect, ect....Fuck you rapo. Remind me to kick your ass when I come back to the east coast. and I got your back Drum. Fuck you liberals childmolesting sympathizers

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