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Fatwa Bastard
by Lee

I’ve been calling for it for three years, and it’s good to see them finally do it.

Top U.S. Muslim scholars issued a “fatwa,” or religious edict, against terrorism on Thursday and called on Muslims to help authorities fight the scourge of militant violence.

The fatwa was part of efforts by U.S. Muslims to counter perceived links between Islam and terrorism and avert any negative backlash after this month’s bombings by suspected Islamic extremists in London and Egypt.

“Having our religious scholars side by side with our community leaders leaves no room for anybody to suggest that Islam and Muslims condone or support any forms or acts of terrorism,” said Esam Omeish, president of the Muslim American Society, one of the groups which announced the fatwa.

Ibrahim Hooper, spokesperson for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said it was the first time Muslims in North America had issued an anti-terrorism edict, although they had repeatedly condemned such acts of violence. … Hooper said Thursday’s religious ruling, issued by the Fiqh Council of North America, said: “We clearly and strongly state (that) all acts of terrorism targeting civilians are ‘haram’ (forbidden) in Islam.”

“It is ‘haram’ for a Muslim to cooperate with any individual or group that is involved in any act of terrorism or violence, and it is the civic and religious duty of Muslims to cooperate with law enforcement authorities to protect the lives of all civilians,” he quoted the ruling as saying.

The Fiqh Council is an association of Islamic legal scholars that interprets Islamic religious law. Hooper said it was the only one of its kind in North America.

I specifically like the part which calls on Muslims to help law enforcement.  That’s been the gaping hole in previous edicts of this type, which just called on Muslims not to participate in terrorism.  Now we just have to wait and see if anyone listens to them.  Nonetheless, this is a good sign , and should be supported.

Let’s see if the Religion of Peace™ can actually be the religion of peace.

Posted by Lee on 07/28/05 at 03:27 PM (Discuss this in the forums)

Comments


Posted by on 07/28/05 at 04:42 PM from United States

Was there a part in the fatwa that said “oh, and you should probably stop reading the Koran and believing in Islam”?

Posted by on 07/28/05 at 04:45 PM from United States

I doubt this would happen, but it would be interesting if this lead to a branching off of Islam.

Posted by Lee on 07/28/05 at 04:47 PM from United States

Was there a part in the fatwa that said “oh, and you should probably stop reading the Koran and believing in Islam”?

Do I really need to drag all the quotes out of the Bible calling for death for certain “offenses”?  Should I mention Christianity’s long legacy of violence and oppression the world over?  Or are you willing to concede that despite the shortcomings in a particular religion’s teachings that some good can come from it?

Posted by sneaky_pete on 07/28/05 at 04:56 PM from United States

Should I mention Christianity’s long legacy of violence and oppression the world over?

Maybe so.  It’s good for you infidels to remember.  You guys had better be nice to us Christians or we’ll crusade you again!

Posted by on 07/28/05 at 05:07 PM from United States

Do I really need to drag all the quotes out of the Bible calling for death for certain “offenses”?  Should I mention Christianity’s long legacy of violence and oppression the world over?

Go for it.  What would it tell you about religion in general?

Or are you willing to concede that despite the shortcomings in a particular religion’s teachings that some good can come from it?

I’m having trouble figuring out if this particular religion is really a religion or an idealogy masking as one.

Posted by Lee on 07/28/05 at 05:19 PM from United States

What would it tell you about religion in general?

That’s exactly my point.  I don’t think that Islam is inherently more violent than any other religion.  I do think that radicalized elements have essentially hijacked a religion, and because of Islam’s lack of any kind of hierarchal structure this hijacking has been much easier than it would in most Christian faiths.  But in Christian organizations that are not part of a hierarchal structure, such as the Klan, we see the kind of radicalized perversion of faith that we see in Islam.

I’m having trouble figuring out if this particular religion is really a religion or an idealogy masking as one.

I think it’s a religion that has been waylaid by people with political and ideological ends.

Posted by on 07/28/05 at 05:57 PM from United States

I don’t think that Islam is inherently more violent than any other religion.

Most religions incorporate the Golden Rule, but I haven’t seen any evidence Islam does.  If it exists and it’s not in an “abbrogated” part of the Koran, somebody please quote it.

Islam’s lack of any kind of hierarchal structure

I suppose an Islamic Pope could facilitate what would basically be a dilution and/or a re-interpretation of the literal texts.  But wasn’t the Catholic Pope against these types of trends when they occurred in Christianity?

the Klan, we see the kind of radicalized perversion of faith that we see in Islam

That would make an interesting comparison.  I wonder who’d have the stomach to do the research, hehe.

I think it’s a religion that has been waylaid by people with political and ideological ends.

I do think that most muslims like most other people tend to lead their life by common sense (Golden Rule, etc) and ignore the parts of the Koran or the Bible that don’t jive with that.

Posted by Lee on 07/28/05 at 06:03 PM from United States

I do think that most muslims like most other people tend to lead their life by common sense (Golden Rule, etc) and ignore the parts of the Koran or the Bible that don’t jive with that.

Bingo.

Posted by svandals on 07/28/05 at 07:53 PM from United States

Do I really need to drag all the quotes out of the Bible calling for death for certain “offenses”?

Please do.  You’ll note that these refer to Jewish people killing other Jewish people for committing certain offenses in order to maintain their society while wandering through the desert for 40 years (I assume you’re speaking of Mosaic Law).  You’ll also note that Christ mocked the Jewish law in the New Testament and established a new covenan through the Sermon on the Mount (by which He reaffirmed each of the 10 Commandements) and by proclaiming that the two greatest commandments were ‘love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself’.

Sorry to get all preachy, but I’ve heard the lame “well the Bible says to kill people too” argument a few too many times when comparing Christianity to Islam.

Posted by on 07/29/05 at 11:14 AM from United States

Don’t get your hopes up. According to LGF, it’s got all the validity of toilet paper.

--TR

Posted by on 07/29/05 at 01:28 PM from United States

Do I really need to drag all the quotes out of the Bible calling for death for certain “offenses”?

Do I need to drag in all the details of Jewish legal procedures which make it nearly impossible to impose?  I’m not arguing to abolish Islam, but the fact is that, ironically, while Christians have been claiming for years to have “civilized” the harsh religion of Judaism with their peaceful ways, throughout recorded history it has been the Christians and Moslems who have killed in the name of religion.  I think that “militant Islam”, while possibly not representative of all Islam, needs to be seen as more than a mere aberration.  There is something in the religion that provides the fertile soil in which these ideas grow.

BTW, from the actual text of the fatwa:

In the light of the teachings of the Qur’an and Sunnah we clearly and strongly state:

1. All acts of terrorism targeting civilians are haram (forbidden) in Islam.

So it depends on how one defines “civilians”, doesn’t it?  It in no way addresses American soldiers in Iraq, obviously, but some Moslems have defined Israeli settlers as non-civilians.  For that matter, while the fatwa doesn’t explicitly exclude acts of terror in Israel or against Jews worldwide, I bet that if there were a way to ask them about it specifically, they would start to weasel immediatedly.  Or maybe they could just point to the MSM, which doesn’t define these as acts of terrorism in the first pace.

Posted by on 08/03/05 at 02:38 AM from United States

That’s exactly my point.  I don’t think that Islam is inherently more violent than any other religion.

Not to be nuts, but You’ve got to friggin kidding me?  Every single attacker of our military, civilian (911?), London, Bali, Embassys, the Cole, Afghanistan, African embassys, CIA building in DC, London, London, and London, they were all....what....anti-abortionist christians, KKK, Israeli fundamentalists, Hells Angels, IRA, CIA, OU812?,
You have got to be shitting me with this.  Did I misunderstand the post or what?  I agree that Islam isnt the problem, but every (okay, not every, but every terror problem that the world has had is Islamic based, is it not?

Posted by Lee on 08/03/05 at 02:50 AM from United States

Not to be nuts, but You’ve got to friggin kidding me?  Every single attacker of our military, civilian (911?), London, Bali, Embassys, the Cole, Afghanistan, African embassys, CIA building in DC, London, London, and London, they were all....what....anti-abortionist christians, KKK, Israeli fundamentalists, Hells Angels, IRA, CIA, OU812?,

You quoted one sentence out of my comment, when the answer to your question immediately followed it.

“I don’t think that Islam is inherently more violent than any other religion.  I do think that radicalized elements have essentially hijacked a religion, and because of Islam’s lack of any kind of hierarchal structure this hijacking has been much easier than it would in most Christian faiths.  But in Christian organizations that are not part of a hierarchal structure, such as the Klan, we see the kind of radicalized perversion of faith that we see in Islam.”

Islam, the religion, is not inherently more violent than any other religion.  I do think that due to a numbers of factors (Islam’s lack of a church structure, the failure of the Middle East to adapt to the modern world, etc.) a number of people have been able to twist and hijack an otherwise normal religion and pervert it to meet political ends.  But Islam, in and of itself, is not any more violent than any other religion. 

If you want to claim that Muslim culture promotes violence then you would have a much better argument.  Every single thing you mention above is much more attributable to the failures of Muslim culture than it is their religion.  But Islam, in terms of being a major world religion, is no more or less violent than any other.  I absolutely stand by that statement.

Posted by Lee on 08/03/05 at 02:54 AM from United States

I think that “militant Islam”, while possibly not representative of all Islam, needs to be seen as more than a mere aberration.  There is something in the religion that provides the fertile soil in which these ideas grow.

I disagree.  I think that there is something in Middle Eastern society that allows these aberrations to take hold.  Again, to use the same example, the KKK is an aberration of Christianity.  The difference is that while Western society tolerates the existence of these groups, our legal system does not permit them to grow, and their beliefs are held in contempt by the vast majority of society.  In the ME, however, their closed societies and warped legal systems not only permit this type of perversion to prosper, it is promoted and financed.  There are no checks and balances on this type of behavior.  It is Arab society that is to blame, not Islam inherently.

Posted by on 08/03/05 at 10:42 AM from United States

Well, I concur with your statement Lee, that every religion has its aberration of some sorts, and you said it, that the Arab society doesn’t seem to condemn this activity to any major extent.  It has only been recently that they have issued “fatwa” against it.  Its been almost 4 years since 9/11, and now theyre protesting?  And where is the MSM in all of this?  It seems to me that everything is back to normal in the U.S., until they start bombing our subway system, and they’ve tried, its only a matter of time.

Posted by on 08/08/05 at 02:35 PM from United States

Posted by Lee on 08/03 at 12:54 AM

>I think that “militant Islam”, while possibly not representative of all Islam, needs to
> be seen as more than a mere aberration.  There is something in the religion that
>
provides the fertile soil in which these ideas grow.

I disagree.  I think that there is something in Middle Eastern society that allows these aberrations to take hold.  Again, to use the same example, the KKK is an aberration of Christianity. 

Israel is a Middle Eastern society; in some sense Jewish people in Europe always maintained a Middle Eastern society (one of the reasons they were always hated).  Judaism is and has always been completely decentralized.  Yet this phenomenon has never happened in Judaism or even in Israel in the face of unbelievable provocation.*

*We’ll never know what motivated the person who shot at the bus full of Arabs the other day, since he was lynched before he could be interrogated, but it should be obvious to all that if he had lived he would have been treated as an accused murderer, and not lionized and condoned by his society.  I am also aware that Rabbi Kahane’s followers are on every major terrorist list.  What I am not aware of are any terrorist acts they have actually committed.

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