Right Thinking From The Left Coast
We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time. - Vince Lombardi

Killing Cops
by Lee

The Minutemen and Revolutionaries™, who want nothing more than to expel the fascist Crusaders from their country, have struck again.

As Iraqi and U.S. forces prepared a offensive against rebels in Baghdad, two suicide bombers outside a government office in Hilla killed 16 police officers and wounded 35 others Monday.

The bombers, who were wearing explosive vests, detonated themselves at about 9:10 a.m. (1:10 a.m. EDT), authorities said.

Hilla is located about 60 miles (100 km) south of the Iraqi capital.

The left can keep deluding themselves, but the people we are fighting are authoritarian fascists.  Anyone or anything involved in trying to set up a reasonable representative democracy and restore order and freedom to the Iraqi people are their enemy.  And then there’s this interesting tidbit.

Meanwhile, in an early morning raid, Iraqi and U.S. forces arrested the head of the Iraqi Islamic Party (IIP) and his three sons in a northwestern Baghdad neighborhood, police sources said.

Mohsen Abdul Hameed—a Sunni Arab and a former member of Iraq’s Governing Council—and his sons were taken into custody during the 6 a.m. Monday operation in the al-Khadhra section of the capital.

No reason was given for Hameed’s arrest, police sources said, while the U.S. military could not confirm it had taken place.

The arrest came a day after a statement released by the IIP questioned plans by Iraqi and U.S. forces to stage a crackdown on insurgents in Baghdad—Operation Lightning.

“Our party looks with concern at the Operation Lightening (sic) announced by the interior and defense ministers on Thursday,” the statement said.

“It is feared that the operation is an extension of the previous practices of the American forces and then Iraqi forces and which, we believe, lacked the strategic vision in how to deal with the complicated security file in Iraq.”

Basically these two dicks went and announced publicly the details of the operation before it happened, thus tipping off the Islamofascist forces that they were about to get the smack laid down on them.

Posted by Lee on 05/30/05 at 02:52 AM (Discuss this in the forums)

Comments


Posted by Sean M. on 05/30/05 at 05:47 AM from United States

I don’t think people on the left are “deluding themselves” at all.  After all, they’re big fans of cop killers.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 08:44 AM from Japan

The left can keep deluding themselves, but the people we are fighting are authoritarian fascists

Do people really blow themselves up to support authoritorianism??

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 10:25 AM from United States

Do people really blow themselves up to support authoritorianism??

- stogy

Seems to me these guys are blowing themselves up to bring about a gov’t/culture/religion that is centered on oppressing the most basic of human desires…

Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, (and to be able to see the sun without a fucking burlap bag over your head and having your life pre-arranged, not to have to face hanging because you married the one you love, instead of the greasy fuck your folks paid for, or not having to worry about thugs dragging you and your family out to a trench in the desert and shooting all of you in the head ‘cause you don’t like the way “The Man” does things...) etc… ad nauseum…

The reason that these dim-wits are blowing themselves up for sounds kinda authoritorianistic to me…

(are “authoritorianism” & “authoritorianistic” even words???)

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 11:08 AM from United States

(are “authoritorianism” & “authoritorianistic” even words???)

If ‘antidisestablishmentarianistically’ can be a word, I suppose so… (34 letters & 14 syllables, if anyone cares)

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/30/05 at 11:10 AM from United States

Do people really blow themselves up to support authoritorianism??

Seems to me Stogy has finally put 2 and 2 together on this one. Stogy: Here in the West, we have trouble believing that there are people who really believe you’ll get 72 virgins to nail in the afterlife if you enslave your neighbors or that the Israelis are stealing their children’s organs, but it’s true. This is a culture that has totally and completely slipped beyond the framework which every other civilization on Earth exists within.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 11:27 AM from Japan

Stogy: Here in the West, we have trouble believing that there are people who really believe you’ll get 72 virgins to nail in the afterlife if you enslave your neighbors or that the Israelis are stealing their children’s organs, but it’s true.

There are plenty of Muslims who don’t believe in this claptrap either, Aaron.

This is a culture that has totally and completely slipped beyond the framework which every other civilization on Earth exists within.

Which culture? Most Islamic countries are American allies (for better or for worse). The fact that there are extremists within any culture should be of no surprise at all.

People don’t blow themselves up to support authoritarianism.

Posted by Poosh on 05/30/05 at 11:31 AM from United Kingdom

People don’t blow themselves up to support authoritarianism.

*rubs eyes*

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 11:33 AM from Europe

People don’t blow themselves up to support authoritarianism.

I think they blow others up in order to support authoritarianism. That they choose to KO themselves at the same time is a just a sign of the nihilism we’re fighting.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 11:40 AM from Japan

But what evidence do you have that they DO this to support authoritarianism.

I put it to you that you have no idea why they blow themselves up.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 11:46 AM from Europe

They blow themselves up because…

1. It’s the best way to ensure that others get blown up.

2. They think there’s some fantastic reward in the afterlife, therefore they don’t give a shit about what happens in this one.

As to what they think it’ll achieve, I don’t know. But it sure as hell isn’t democracy or peace, so what does that leave?

Posted by Poosh on 05/30/05 at 11:50 AM from United Kingdom

It boils down to an Obi-Wan-typed “depends on your point of view.” These people, most of them, blow themselves up in the hope that their sacrifice will allow Sharia Law to rule the lands (sometimes the world). We and any well-balanced person consider blanket Sharia Law repulsive – not because it is religious, which would be idiotic – but because of its content. However from the point of view of some, perhaps most Muslims, Sharia Law is something that is “liberating” and “good” and so on. We consider it authoritarian, to us this is self-evident. They consider it perfection.

Fortunately, unlike Obi-Wan Kenobi, I believe in absolutes, so I call bullshit.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 11:52 AM from Japan

so what does that leave?

Have you considered that they might be doing this in response to feelings of humiliation?

Posted by Poosh on 05/30/05 at 11:52 AM from United Kingdom

People don’t blow themselves up to support authoritarianism.

Stogy, meet a 1940’s Japanese Kamikaze Pilot.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 11:55 AM from Japan

We and any well-balanced person consider blanket Sharia Law repulsive – not because it is religious, which would be idiotic – but because of its content

Many muslims also don’t want Sharia law. Just like most Christians don’t want to live under a Spanish Inquisition.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 11:59 AM from Japan

Stogy, meet a 1940’s Japanese Kamikaze Pilot.

Hey - I have news for you. None of the Kamikaze pilots died for authoritarianism either (and I live in Japan, so I have some idea of what I am talking about).

Posted by Poosh on 05/30/05 at 11:59 AM from United Kingdom

What the fuck are you on about? What the fuck does that have to do with anything? Did I say All Muslims want to live under Sharia Law? No. Fucking Hell.

Fucking hell <walks out the door, really, really pissed>

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 12:00 PM from Europe

Could be. When anyone feels humiliated, they reflect on how best to restore their pride.

They may decide that nothing can be salvaged, and the only way out is their own death. That is a tragedy, but if they are a decent human being they will do it in such a way as to minimise upset to others.

If they are not, they will decide to take as many with them as possible.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 12:02 PM from Japan

Did I say All Muslims want to live under Sharia Law? No. Fucking Hell.

Umm...yeah, you did (that’s how I saw it):

Fortunately, unlike Obi-Wan Kenobi, I believe in absolutes, so I call bullshit.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 12:04 PM from United States

They may decide that nothing can be salvaged, and the only way out is their own death. That is a tragedy, but if they are a decent human being they will do it in such a way as to minimise upset to others.

Like the Buddhists. But they were always very careful not to let the flames spread.

None of the Kamikaze pilots died for authoritarianism

So Japan under the Emperor (whose Sacred Person was considered a living divinity) wasn’t considered an authoritarian state? How is an Empire not considered authoritarian?

Be specific.

and I live in Japan, so I have some idea of what I am talking about

We shall see.

Posted by Poosh on 05/30/05 at 12:10 PM from United Kingdom

However from the point of view of some, perhaps most Muslims, Sharia Law is something

see that, read it again.

However from the point of view of some, perhaps most Muslims, Sharia Law is something

By no stretch of the imagination did I say that all Muslims believe in Sharia Law. I even put a “perhaps” in front of the “most”.

None of the Kamikaze pilots died for authoritarianism either

Sure Stogy, And the Luftwaffe weren’t bombing London to install an authoritarian Nazi Government either.

and I live in Japan, so I have some idea of what I am talking about

Oh ok then. So living in a country suddenly makes you an expert in that countries’ war-history (why stop there?).

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 12:10 PM from United States

Many muslims also don’t want Sharia law.

Name some, please. Because all Muslims are to submit themselves to the law based on the Koran - as defined by Allah and transcribed by Mohammed (ptui) - are they not? (Much like Catholics submit themselves to Papal pronouncements, IMNSHO.) Isn’t that the whole point?

That law (based on the Koran) is called ‘Sharia Law’.

So, by definition, a Muslim is REQUIRED to submit himself to the teachings of the Koran, to wit, Sharia Law.

Look it up, you fucking idiot.

Posted by Poosh on 05/30/05 at 12:11 PM from United Kingdom

Fortunately, unlike Obi-Wan Kenobi, I believe in absolutes, so I call bullshit.

Yeah. I fucking do. Got a problem with that? I believe that rape is wrong - that for me is an absolute. Got a fucking problem with that?

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 12:13 PM from United States

Another link for that fucking idiot.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 12:13 PM from Japan

So Japan under the Emperor (whose Sacred Person was considered a living divinity) wasn’t considered an authoritarian state? How is an Empire not considered authoritarian?

When they died, they were specifically supporting the emperor of Japan. They weren’t supporting a system of authoritarianism.

But there was also an entire culture built on the concept of sacrifice to the higher good (which significant numbers of people rejected, btw - seldom discussed) along with it. I would argue that the Kamikaze pilots died supporting a system of ethnocentrism, nationalism and emperor worship, as well as the desire not to disgrace themselves or their families. Did you ever hear about the Kamikazes who survived (and yes, there were quite a few)?

The fact that the emperor was an authoritarian is neither here nor there.

Posted by Poosh on 05/30/05 at 12:14 PM from United Kingdom

Isn’t there a distinction between Sharia Law enforced by a government and Sharia Law, followed by an individual?

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/30/05 at 12:15 PM from United States

There are plenty of Muslims who don’t believe in this claptrap either, Aaron.

And they’re murdered along with the other infidels.

Which culture? Most Islamic countries are American allies (for better or for worse). The fact that there are extremists within any culture should be of no surprise at all.

Our extremists have daytime TV shows. Theirs are out murdering thousands with government support. You do the math.

People don’t blow themselves up to support authoritarianism.

No, they “martyr” themselves to blow others up as punishment for not submitting to authoritarianism. Subtle, nuanced distinction. And if you don’t believe me, you can watch their own videos and listen to their own songs. Whether you believe it or not, they sure as hell do.

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/30/05 at 12:18 PM from United States

None of the Kamikaze pilots died for authoritarianism

No, they died to serve a millenia-old system of command-and-control servitude to which one’s very life was subject to the whim of a pseudo-artistocratic military ruling class under which Tojo had styled himself Shogun. CAN’T YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 12:18 PM from Europe

When they died, they were specifically supporting the emperor of Japan. They weren’t supporting a system of authoritarianism.

They were fighting for a country that sent young men out on suicide missions. And when thier turn came, they gladly went. If that’s not supporting authoritarianism, I don’t know what is!

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 12:21 PM from United States

When they died, they were specifically supporting the emperor of Japan. They weren’t supporting a system of authoritarianism.

You’re a fucking idiot, you know that?

The Emperor’s power was authoritarian, by definition. They knew this. They flew those planes into ships, knowing they would die, because the Emperor told them to do so. That’s an authoritarian government, no matter who is actually signing the paychecks (which these guys never got to cash anyway).

These men were blowing themselves up to support the status quo, because the Americans would change things if they won. Conquered nations throughout History, got conquered ALL THE WAY, and wholesale slaughter was the norm, rather than the exception. (Just look at what the Japanese did at Nan King to see what they were expecting in return.)

The fact that the emperor was an authoritarian is neither here nor there.

Nah, of course not. Nice try at splitting that semantic hair, but you are a fucking idiot.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 12:25 PM from United States

Isn’t there a distinction between Sharia Law enforced by a government and Sharia Law, followed by an individual?

Q: Who decides what “The Law” would be under Islam if the solution isn’t specifically spelled out, and some ‘interpretation’ would be required?

A: The imam (teacher).

Q: If a person is going to submit himself to Sharia Law, what does it matter if the government is telling him not to do it? (Case in point: the Muslim who “honor-killed” his 12-year-old daughter in the UK.)

A: If the government is dictating Sharia, then he would be obeying the law. If it doesn’t, he would be obeying his God. It’s a win-win situation for him, either way.

Posted by Tj on 05/30/05 at 12:25 PM from United States

Come on you guys.  Have some compassion for how the terrorist feels.  *snort*

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 12:26 PM from Japan

Name some, please. Because all Muslims are to submit themselves to the law based on the Koran - as defined by Allah and transcribed by Mohammed (ptui) - are they not? (Much like Catholics submit themselves to Papal pronouncements, IMNSHO.) Isn’t that the whole point?

Ever heard of a country called Turkey (that’s the one between Greece and Iraq)? They have Shari’a law there, do they? Ever been to Morocco? I had planned not to drink anything while I was there, but the local traders thought I was nuts. The gay Muslim friend of mine would really beg to differ with you on this.

Remember also that Shari’a means very different things to different Muslims. On the Wikpedia link - the story on liberal (ouch, sorry there’s that word - I hope your allergy is OK, DW) movements within Islam is good.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 12:29 PM from United States

Aaron, LOL

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/30/05 at 12:30 PM from United States

Case in point: the Muslim who “honor-killed” his 12-year-old daughter in the UK.)

You use the singular, which is misleading. Either Scotland Yard or the RCMP (I forget which, maybe both) has an entire division dedicated to investigating this idiocy among Islamic immigrants.

The gay Muslim friend of mine would really beg to differ with you on this.

I guess my murdering, adultering, thieving, false-witness-giving Christian friend would beg to differ about the Ten Commandments, too, but hey.

Remember also that Shari’a means very different things to different Muslims. On the Wikpedia link - the story on liberal (ouch, sorry there’s that word - I hope your allergy is OK, DW) movements within Islam is good.

Yeah, such things are great, until the Mullahs send their Basiji out to kick in your dorm door and beat you to death, as regularly happens in Iran.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 12:35 PM from Japan

Nah, of course not. Nice try at splitting that semantic hair, but you are a fucking idiot.

Actually - it’s not a semantic hair. It’s important. The kamikaze pilots died while supporting a regime that was authoritarian, yes. But you haven’t proven that they died supporting a policy of authoritarianism. It’ quite a different thing. Their motives when they died were rather different, and the 3 motives that I posted earlier were ignored, as usual.

I argued that the muslim fundamentalist groups recruit young Muslim men who feel disempowered and humiliated within their own political systems - they are manipulated and sent out with explosives strapped to their chests. They don’t die for the purpose of supporting a policy of authoritarianism. They die because they believe that somehow it will lead to a reduction in the suffering of their own people.

I don’t support the policy. I think that it’s self-defeating. Many muslims also agree with me on this.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 12:36 PM from United States

They have Shari’a law there, do they?

Actually, yeah, they do.

The gay Muslim friend of mine would really beg to differ with you on this.

What does his imam think of his homosexuality? Or has he only come out to you (maybe some quiet whispers under the blankets during a “sleepover party”, even though it’s just the two of you)?

How closely does your (ahem) “friend” follow the other teachings of Islam? Does he pray five times a day? Has he made his hajj? Or are you claiming that he’s Muslim simply because his parents are?

Remember also that Shari’a means very different things to different Muslims.

Like Catholics giving abortions, huh?

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/30/05 at 12:37 PM from United States

So, stogy, to get this straight: You don’t feel that Nazi death camp guards were supporting genocide, persay?

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/30/05 at 12:38 PM from United States

Er, uh, wait a second...

I don’t support the policy. I think that it’s self-defeating. Many muslims also agree with me on this.

Do you have a clue what you just said?

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 12:39 PM from United States

The kamikaze pilots died while supporting a regime that was authoritarian, yes. But you haven’t proven that they died supporting a policy of authoritarianism.

I’m… just.... stunned.....

They die because they believe that somehow it will lead to a reduction in the suffering of their own people.

And the reason they are targeting their own people is.......? Or are you admitting that these (ahem) “insurgents” are coming from elsewhere to impose their preferred form of government onto a newly-freed nation?

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 12:40 PM from Japan

So, stogy, to get this straight: You don’t feel that Nazi death camp guards were supporting genocide, persay?

No, they weren’t supporting genocide, because the jews had been so utterly dehumanized under the Nazi government that for many of the guards, there would have been no moral problem.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 12:41 PM from Japan

And the reason they are targeting their own people is.......? Or are you admitting that these (ahem) “insurgents” are coming from elsewhere to impose their preferred form of government onto a newly-freed nation?

DW - we have been through this before. You know just as well as I that some sections of the insurgency in Iraq are trying to start a civil war. Your argument is disengenuous.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 12:43 PM from Japan

Er, uh, wait a second…

I don’t support the policy. I think that it’s self-defeating. Many muslims also agree with me on this.
Do you have a clue what you just said?

I need to get to bed, but spell it out. Quick!

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/30/05 at 12:43 PM from United States

No, they weren’t supporting genocide, because the jews had been so utterly dehumanized under the Nazi government that for many of the guards, there would have been no moral problem.

Wow, just wow. You would’ve been a hoot at the war crimes tribunals. “Vee vere just vollowing orters!” “Case dimissed!”

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/30/05 at 12:44 PM from United States

I need to get to bed, but spell it out. Quick!

You said you don’t support committing suicide as a means of mass murder because it’s “self defeating”. What the fuck do you want, for them to win?

Posted by Poosh on 05/30/05 at 12:44 PM from United Kingdom

This is too fucking funny.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 12:45 PM from United States

He’s saying that because the guards didn’t think it was ‘genocide’, it was just a case of “boys will be boys”. It’s all about “feelings”, not verifiable facts.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 12:46 PM from United States

Poosh: You see why I call him a ‘fucking idiot’? LOL

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 12:46 PM from Japan

Wow, just wow. You would’ve been a hoot at the war crimes tribunals. “Vee vere just vollowing orters!” “Case dimissed!”

Actually, Aaron. The Nuremberg trials specifically said that this kind of defense (following orders) was invalid. The fact that there would have been no moral problem doesn’t excuse the behaviour. You have completely misunderstood my point. I am not defending any kind of behaviour. I am trying to understand it.

Which is more than you are trying to do.

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/30/05 at 12:48 PM from United States

The Nuremberg trials specifically said that this kind of defense (following orders) was invalid. The fact that there would have been no moral problem doesn’t excuse the behaviour. You have completely misunderstood my point. I am not defending any kind of behaviour. I am trying to understand it.

The fact that there was no moral problem made them *monsters*. That’s why it wasn’t a defense. Can you get that through your head?

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 12:49 PM from Japan

You said you don’t support committing suicide as a means of mass murder because it’s “self defeating”. What the fuck do you want, for them to win?

OK. No. You really are misunderstanding me. I was thinking of the Palestinians militant groups, who I believe are following a policy which is contrary to their own best interests. They could achieve a lot more non-violently (and create a viable state with the support of Israel).

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 12:52 PM from Japan

The fact that there was no moral problem made them *monsters*. That’s why it wasn’t a defense. Can you get that through your head?

That would be your view. Their behaviour was monstrous, but I think that evil is really much more banal. Rather than deal with the moral problems that lay behind the policy, they just got on with the job of genocide.

Posted by Tj on 05/30/05 at 12:53 PM from United States

...

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 12:54 PM from Japan

This is too fucking funny.

Glad to be providing the evening’s entertainment, Poosh.

Congrats on the Cricket, btw. Tough nuts, those Bangladeshis.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 12:55 PM from Japan

Thanks Tj, you are right.

Night :-)

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 12:55 PM from Japan

He’s saying that because the guards didn’t think it was ‘genocide’, it was just a case of “boys will be boys”. It’s all about “feelings”, not verifiable facts.

And no, I didn’t say that at all.

Posted by Tj on 05/30/05 at 12:56 PM from United States

Np stogy.  You are left.  Night!

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 01:01 PM from United States

And no, I didn’t say that at all.

You didn’t have to. That message came through loud and clear.

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/30/05 at 01:03 PM from United States

That would be your view.

Wow.

Posted by Aaron - Free Will on 05/30/05 at 01:05 PM from United States

LOL. Totally off topic, I was just flipping around and there’s some kid’s show on where it’s school club recruiting day. The French Club ad comes on: “Bonjour, join the French Club. Or not. I don’t care. In fact, who needs you? Go away.”

Posted by Tj on 05/30/05 at 01:12 PM from United States

Also OT:  Don’t know if anyone has ever posted this before but I think it’s pretty comical.

Double you tee eff mate!

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 02:51 PM from United States

Here’s a good idea. Let’s take, say, half the suburban cops in the US and ship ‘em off to Iraq. It will solve the problem of the suburbs being overpoliced and it will give these guys something productive to do (besides bullying teens and minorities).

The police unions swear that their members are oh-so professional. Let’s put it to the test.

How much you wanna bet that if the gov’t actually did this cops would quit on the spot to avoid being put in actual danger.

God I hate the police.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 03:01 PM from United States

It will solve the problem of the suburbs being overpoliced

Yeah, because 45 minutes to get a cop to show up doesn’t give the criminals enough time to finish what they’re doing and get away.

God I hate the police.

Spoken like a “bullied teen minority”. Fuck da poe-lease, fo shizzle.

Grow up, you brat.

Posted by Jason_Dallas on 05/30/05 at 03:11 PM from United States

Lee needs to put a warning on this post:

CAUTION: READING STOGY’S COMMENTS MAY CAUSE BRAIN HEMMORAGING.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 03:13 PM from United States

No shit, huh...?

Hey, RK, LTNS. Long trip?

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 03:35 PM from United States

Yeah, because 45 minutes to get a cop to show up doesn’t give the criminals enough time to finish what they’re doing and get away.

Where the fuck are you from? In suburban NJ, one call to the police and like 3 squad cars show up, pigs with weapons drawn in less than 3 minutes. Some towns boast an average 45 second response time.

In certain towns in Bergen County, NJ, the number one thing cops get called about? “I saw a black man walking down my street.”

Spoken like a “bullied teen minority”. Fuck da poe-lease, fo shizzle.

Grow up, you brat.

I hate the police and with good reason. Six months ago I was arrested without evidence for crimes I did not commit. I was 100% honest with the police but they tried to bully and abuse me into a confession with threats. I committed no crime. I refused their violent demands. Their only cause for action was the accusation of a girl who we all would later find out was a pathological liar. Less than two weeks ago, my case was dismissed by the grand jury because there was no evidence save for the proof that exonerated me. The only reason this took so long was because the police had fucked up so badly that the prosecutor’s office could not possibly dismiss the case for fear that I would sue the police. Thus they tried to bully me into taking a plea by threatening to levy additional charges against me. The idea behind this is that if they can charge a person with 12 different things, a jury may compromise on the verdict and find the person guilty of just one thing. That one thing could send the innocent man to prison. By the time of my Grand Jury hearing, the additional charges were filed but the Grand Jury threw the case out.

So if I feel that “fuck the police” is an appropriate little expression, it isn’t because I’m a “brat.” Cops and prosecutors (who to me are just cops in suits) are generally corrupt and abusive. They are a mafia but a necessary one.

Drum, when you speak you shoot from the hip, and I respect that. Most of the time you actually get it right. This is one of those times when you didn’t know the source of my total outrage and spoke too soon.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 03:42 PM from United States

Fo shizzle, mah nizzle.

Less than two weeks ago, my case was dismissed by the grand jury because there was no evidence save for the proof that exonerated me.

Well, Son. Of. A. Bitch.

I guess the system worked, huh? Have you filed a lawsuit yet? “False arrest” not sufficient cause? How about slander and libel charges against the girl? It should be relatively easy to prove damages.

Or are you just gonna be the disaffected “Dam Man is jus’ out ta keep the bruthuh da-own” loser I see on street corners everywhere?

Your call, but actually making that decision requires you to (as I said) “grow up”. Yeah, you got a shitty deal. Others have had much worse.

Grow the fuck up and cope. Respond as needed. But kwitcherbitchin....

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 03:50 PM from United States

Where the fuck are you from?

The suburbs. We are at the very edge of the urban sprawl around Los Angeles. (On one side - west - lies continuous city, with city limits butted right up against the next city over, and on the other - generally east - lies lots of open territory and sand.)

So I think that I know whereof I speak. Sounds like you are right down the street from the nearest police substation. That makes your neighborhood ‘urban’, at the very least.

Posted by Kilroy on 05/30/05 at 03:51 PM from United States

God I hate the police

Call a THERAPEST you fucking loon.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 03:53 PM from United States

I am planning on going after everyone who fucked me over, from the girl to the cops to the prosecutor’s office to the job that fired me because of the accusations/arrest. I am waiting to get back every piece of paperwork to show this whole case has been resolved and then I’ll be doing all those things. The plans are laid and the decisions have been made. It’s just a matter of timing and prioritizing. I believe I’ll even be able to get some of my targets to further incriminate each other.

The girl is the most provably criminal in her intentions. The girl who accused me claimed that I was calling her, but my phone records proved I never did. She even went to the length of saying it was from my home phone and she saw my name in her callerID box. I never called her, and in fact the opposite was true. She obsessively called me. She had hoped, correctly, that there would be no records of these local calls through verizon. At the time, my main phone line was through Optimum Online VOIP. I had local call records. I even had incoming call records. The incoming call records proved that she was calling me. That right there proved she was a liar and a calculating one at that. If I had used Verizon, I would not have been able to prove the truth. Had the police bothered to lift a finger and investigate before making an arrest, a whole lot of misery could have been avoided.  Instead, they made the arrest and the prosecutor’s office did their damndest to cover for their mistake by further bullying me.

Grow the fuck up and cope. Respond as needed. But kwitcherbitchin....

My anger is directed against a whole system that let me down. America is supposed to be better than this. People are not supposed to be guilty until proven innocent. They are not supposed to spend 6 months of their lives awaiting a decision from a Grand Jury that could have been reached by the fucking cops who arrested me.

If I despise the criminal justice system, it’s with good reason.

Fuck the police.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 03:59 PM from United States

So I think that I know whereof I speak. Sounds like you are right down the street from the nearest police substation. That makes your neighborhood ‘urban’, at the very least.

I live in Bergen County NJ. It’s steadfastly suburban here. I don’t know about the response time for your pigs but for ours it’s pretty damned fast once they get teh call.

Call a THERAPEST you fucking loon.

Hey you go through what I went through without a sense of total outrage and anger and we’ll see how you feel. I’m going to go out and get my justice for this (legally) but this shit needs to be stopped because I can’t believe I’m the first innocent man to be bullied by the police because of a major fuck-up. Good conservative who fear an overempowered government should be concerned as well.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 04:00 PM from United States

Urge to kill… rising…

Posted by Tj on 05/30/05 at 04:01 PM from United States

*passes out Tylenol and Midol*

Posted by Kilroy on 05/30/05 at 04:08 PM from United States

Hey you go through what I went through without a sense of total outrage and anger and we’ll see how you feel.

I have, I would E-Mail you my story, but this would just place another log on the fire of hatred burning inside.  I guess this is your therapy venting on-line.  So I would say keep it up, for I really don’t want to see you on the news shooting people.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 04:13 PM from United States

I’m not doing anything illegal. And it’s not so much my form of therapy as it is an event in my life that’s been neatly woven into my generally libertarian world view. I can appreciate it if you’ve survived something similarly harrowing, but you should know that the fire of hatred is something I’ve come to embrace. It gave me strength during those very depressing six months. Hatred can fuel a man to do things he otherwise could not do.

I plan to go to law school (taking the LSAT June 6) and specialize in criminal defense. Someone must keep the abuses of these thugs in check. If it were not for good defense attorneys America would be just a few steps away from the old Soviet Union or a dictatorship.

Posted by Jason_Dallas on 05/30/05 at 04:19 PM from United States

Hiya, Drum. Yeah, it’s been something of a long trip. Hell, averaging 3750 miles a week will keep anyone off the computer.

But I still check in every now and then. I just haven’t posted. Guess I’ve gone from “poster” to “lurker”. hehe.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 04:24 PM from United States

Hatred can fuel a man to do things he otherwise could not do.

Like save your wife, Padme?

(heh)

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 04:30 PM from United States

lol. Very funny drum. More like keep your head above water when the deck is stacked against you, you’ve lost your job and your means to pay increasingly burdensome legal fees, etc. I think you get the picture.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 04:42 PM from United States

I wish you the best, but one instance does not a statistical universe make. I’d be willing to put money on the 90% of cops who are good and honorable and just trying to do a very difficult job under very trying circumstances.

For example, you would be very hard-pressed to bitch about maltreatment if they had simply shot you dead. (Even Rodney “Wifebeater and Drug Dealer” King lived to tell about it to those hundreds of cameras.) In some countries, the burden of innocence is upon YOU, rather than the other way around. In Saddam’s Iraq, you’d have been lucky to get out with all of your fingers and toes still attached, innocent or not (in a country where “innocent” is determined by how publicly you support Saddam).

You should thank God that you have been given a chance to “get even”.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 04:53 PM from United States

In order to end a criminal proceeding at the Grand Jury level you pretty much do have to prove your innocence. The burden of proof there is extraordinarily light on the prosecutor. Had I been indicted, it would have been another 6 months of misery before the case would have gone to trial. My case was one where the girl told such provably false lies that the case should have been dismissed months ago.

I don’t consider myself lucky. I spent tens of thousands of dollars on legal fees and went through the worst emotional roller coaster ride of my life. What my family went through was torture. It has no doubt had a negative impact on the health of my mother who has been struggling with cancer. There is no forgiveness for what was done. These bastards didn’t just hurt me.

I will only consider myself fortunate when revenge/justice has been lawfully applied to all the guilty parties, from the girl to the pigs to the prosecutors.

Posted by Drumwaster on 05/30/05 at 05:07 PM from United States

Making it sound ever more awful (from your point of view) does not change the fact that it was only one instance, and “one instance does not a statistical universe make”.

when revenge/justice has been lawfully applied to all the guilty parties, from the girl to the pigs to the prosecutors.

Be specific. What would you consider “justice”?

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 05:19 PM from United States

One thing I failed to mention was that the police destroyed and attempted to cover up evidence. When they first picked me up, I spoke frankly and honestly with them about the actual chain of events. That interview was taped. I know because I saw them place a videotape into a tape machine. Later, it turned out that the tape “didn’t exist.” I gave the police all kinds of info they could have followed up on that would have proven my innocence. When I produced said evidence, (provingI was telling the truth), they destroyed the tape because they knew it would show just how sloppy their police work was. I know I cannot prove this but I can prove that they attempted to suppress other evidence. About two months ago, the girl who accused me accused someone else of threatening her at gunpoint in front of witnesses. There was a police investigation that determined that the other guy did no such thing. When the other guy tried to get paperwork on this investigation, he was told that there was no paperwork. This was not the first time she had accused HIM of something so he wanted the proof on paper that this girl had falsely accused him.  Aparently the cops didn’t want a paper trail proving that their girl cried wolf again. God forbid I should get a hold of that!

Now about justice....

Justice is a nebulous concept. Nothing can exactly give me my life back. That’s why I refer to revenge/justice as a sort of blurry idea. But getting away from sematics, I can say this much:

I consider suing the girl and seeing her prosecuted for perjury a desirable outcome.

I consider suing the police for a large cash settlement a desirable outcome. It is my hope that the police involved will lose their jobs over this.

I consider suing the prosecutor’s office for malicious prosecution also desirable.

I also consider suing my former employer desirable as well.

Posted by West Virginia Rebel on 05/30/05 at 05:44 PM from United States

Don’t forget to sue your parents (for bringing you into this awful, unfair world) the Universe, and your genes for making you such a crybaby while you’re at it.

Posted by on 05/30/05 at 06:21 PM from United States

mathew-

are you a retard, an asshole or did you just not read the previous dialogue? If there was ever a just cause to sue, it’s here. A crybaby? These people fucked up my whole life. We all hear about people suing for ludicrous things. My brother is a disability insurance attorney (representing the insurance companies) and he sees the system milked all the time. I know how that goes. I have been wronged on an enormous scale. I’m not whining about it but I am telling you my plan of recourse. There is nothing “frivolous” about what’s happened here.

How about we put you through the same fucking thing and see how you feel. Drum asked how I planned to seek reciprocity. I told him.

I made my original post about suburban cops and I stick to it. These people are fucking useless. I speculate they might be useful in Iraq, although I doubt they could legally be deployed there. Everything else came in response to people’s remarks after that.

If one day you find your whole life turned upside down by a series of injustices, and you find yourself threatened with lengthy prison sentences, you’ll think back to your words and realize “Yeah that guy’s not a crybaby to wanna sue over this shit...”

Posted by Helo on 05/30/05 at 06:31 PM from United States

Has anyone seen Lee today? It’s my first day off in a long time, and I was so looking forward to reading funny posts :)

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