Right Thinking From The Left Coast
Never trust a computer you can't throw out a window - Steve Wozniak

Oh Yeah, There’s World Out There

While we’re discussing our Presidential candidate, the Rest Of the World continues to exist.  And it’s not looking good.  Georgia has cut off diplomatic ties with the Russians, who are threatening to annex South Ossetia.  Putin is claiming that we deliberately caused the problem to help John McCain.  And the EU is passing resolutions, including one that could punt Russia from the G-8.

I wish I knew how this was going to play out, but I don’t.  Putin is very hard to read, President Bush’s peering into his soul not withstanding.  I oppose withdrawing from NATO or kicking Russia out of the G-8; the latter because I’m a big believer in alliances—especially in the nuclear age—and the former because I think Russia needs to be contained, not isolated.  We need them on our side when it comes to Iran and Afghanistan.

We’re entering a very dangerous phase of world affairs in which we have to balance China, Russia and the MIddle East and probably India before it’s all done.  It’s like a chess game with an unknown number of players.  I’m not sure, looking at either Presidential candidate, that we have someone capable of handling this (where’s Bush 41 when you need him?).  But right now I feel like we’re waiting for the next shoe to drop, waiting to see where Putin moves his tanks next.

Posted by Hal_10000 on 08/31/08 at 12:21 PM (Discuss this in the forums)

Comments


Posted by mikeguas on 08/31/08 at 02:55 PM from United States

I think Putin knows how to play the West perfectly. He may be an asshole, but he’s a smart asshole. He knows who will push for strong measures, and who will balk. He also knows this will cause more division in the West over time than unity, as there are some countries over there who will tolerate expansion and excuse it no matter what, and there are some like Great Britain who actually have balls but will be ridiculed as being a puppet of the US by the rest of our ‘friends’. I’m sure he’ll also know how far to push over each time period so that any alarm can be put in check, and no meaningful action taken.

I figure he won’t go much further for now, let the dust settle, and then make another move a few months down the road. We need to get out of this game and let the EU handle all of it. This is a mess we do not need to be part of. Our job of being the savior of the free world is done, and should have been a long time ago. Now we need to save ourselves, especially when will be perceived as the bad guy buy the very people we have convinced ourselves we are helping.

Posted by on 08/31/08 at 03:47 PM from United States

What gets me is Georgia whining about how this could have been avoided if it were allowed to enter NATO. So all these other nations would be shamed into war with Russia? The other NATO countries can help NOW if they want to, but they don’t want to. Had Georgia been in NATO the conflict would have triggered the end to NATO, not NATO jumping to action. It is a disgrace to the entire continent that Europe does so little and expects us to deal with this.

Maybe we should “blame the US first”. The US needs leaders who are conspiracy theorists - not people who imagine theories where none exist, but who create conspiracies where we need them. CIA, NSA, spies, Russian experts, what the fuck are these people even doing besides keeping track of the online porn habits of US Citizens? My high school history teacher could have played this better than Secy Rice, who was on vacation as Bush was.

What is up with the Georgia President? “For years, we have offered direct talks with the leaders of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, so that we could discuss our plan to grant them the broadest possible autonomy within the internationally recognized borders of Georgia.” (Link:  wsj)

He goes on and on about how he knew and told the US this was coming. What do we make of that? Did we not tell him he sounded crazy and was full of shit? Did our satellites show he was right, but we didn’t care? This clown is an ally? What were France’s, Spain’s, Poland’s, and UK’s spies doing besides downloading porn all day? The only sequence of events that makes sense is that everyone was sleeping. I say fuck it - let’s pull everything out of Georgia and let Georgia beg Europe for help.

Posted by Hal_10000 on 08/31/08 at 06:39 PM from United States

What gets me is Georgia whining about how this could have been avoided if it were allowed to enter NATO. So all these other nations would be shamed into war with Russia? The other NATO countries can help NOW if they want to, but they don’t want to. Had Georgia been in NATO the conflict would have triggered the end to NATO, not NATO jumping to action. It is a disgrace to the entire continent that Europe does so little and expects us to deal with this.

If Georgia had been in NATO, I severely doubt that Russia would have pulled this.  IN fact, they may have started it because they were worried about their window closing.

Posted by HARLEY on 08/31/08 at 09:52 PM from United States

This incident in Georgia would have happened no matter what, its part of a built in “failsafe” the soviets designed to cause disruption in any of teh republics if they split off.
OF course Putin wanted to move on Georgia before they became a NATO member, to cover his southern flank, and to Push pack against NATO.
He got most of what he wanted, NATO did not act, the EU tried to ignore it, and the USA stood around on its balls. The old Warsaw pack did something he did not expect, that was run to the USA and strengthening their ties to us, and try to force teh EU to do something.

Putin is very hard to read, President Bush’s peering into his soul not withstanding.

Its pretty obvious Bush lied to keep the public happy.

Posted by on 08/31/08 at 10:54 PM from United States

Hal’s on the money.  This wouldn’t have happened if Georgia had been a part of NATO.  Russia is not stupid, and they would not have risked the consequences of attacking a NATO-allied nation.

Posted by on 08/31/08 at 10:59 PM from United States

There is no risk in attacking a NATO nation. Imagine Germany doing anything. Uh no.

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