Right Thinking From The Left Coast
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Vote “No” on Obama’s START treaty.

Congress is currently looking at the START treaty the dreamy eyed Obama team has been pushing for. I have repeatedly pointed out how bad of an agreement this is for the US, specifically because and in typical pre-Cold war fashion, we have the same kind of peacenik morons giving away our critical missile defense capability, by drastically limiting our options. I am not alone on this issue. Considering how adamant State and Obama were that this was not the case, this revelation, which came out as part of the Wikileaks shenanigans of Assange, sure points to the fact that everyone else is worried that the US will get substantive missile defense capabilities.

The Russians sure seem to think so, or they wouldn’t have been so adamant about limiting our capabilities. This Administration is also pulling a Bill Clinton “What’s the meaning of ‘is’” defense to claim the treaty doesn’t obligate the US to give up missile defense, when it clearly does. Then you have Harry Reid pulling a Pelosi on Healthcare Reform, a.k.a government takeover of healthcare, and telling us that they should ratify the treaty so we can find out what’s in it. Way to go morons!

Kill this thing and negotiate, in earnest, so we do not have to give up our defensive capabilities. With North Korea on the verge of giving new meaning to “Coo-Coo for Coco Puffs” and Iran already showing us they will either use the leverage of owning a nuke to destabilize the area or actually just use it to do so, I think we might really want to push that whole missile defense thing to be non-negotiable. I am sure our NATO allies will agree now that we find out Iran has obtained missiles from China that can easily hit Europe, and can carry nukes. I can even go for the idea of sharing the shield with the Russians, since Moscow would also end up being vulnerable, although I bristle at sharing the technology. The Russians have a bigger problem with the Chinese stealing their military tech and copying it than we do. 

Posted by AlexinCT on 12/01/10 at 12:32 PM (Discuss this in the forums)

Comments


Posted by on 12/01/10 at 03:23 PM from United States

While I have to admit I am not well versed in the details of the “treaty”, I will say I am against it on principle.  We always give away some of our capability in these things while the other side only strengthens theirs.  Russia has continued to modernize and upgrade their nuclear forces, most recently with the newest versions of their multiple warhead silo and mobile based ICBMs.  Meanwhile, we’ve given up our frontline ICBM, the Peacekeepers, and are forced to try to keep the older Minuteman missiles (1960s technology), with single warheads, operational.  Why we think we can trust the Russians I will never understand. 

I also find it funny that the deal hinges on missile defense efforts while the Russians claim their newest missiles can easily defeat it.  My suspicion is that the Russians don’t like missile defense because it lowers the value of the older systems and technologies they are selling the North Koreans, Chinese, Iranians, and god knows who else, under the table.

Posted by Hal_10000 on 12/01/10 at 04:09 PM from United States

Uh TxAg, you need to keep up.  Part of the agreemet for getting this through the Senate was an $80 billion agreement to upgrade our missiles.

This treaty would also not scrap missile defense, but would move it more toward a ship-based system, which the Russians are fine with.  The Poles, who would be the most affected by this, are in favor of it.

If we don’t sign the treaty, we continue our inability to inspect Russian weapons.  Why is this a good thing?  The more I look at this, the more the opposition looks like “Obama is for it, so it must be bad”.  There’s little going on that the Bush Administration wasn’t in favor of.  And shifting the missile defense system to ship-based was part of what got Russia to turn on the Iranians.

But I forget the Right Wing Mind when it comes to foreign relations: we should get everything we want, other nations should shut up and take it.  The idea of negotiation and agreement is sooo Reagan.

Posted by on 12/01/10 at 05:36 PM from United States

we

should get everything we want, other nations should shut up and take it.

That’s foreign relations for EVERYBODY.  Some are just better at pretending it isn’t…

Posted by AlexinCT on 12/01/10 at 08:56 PM from United States

Uh TxAg, you need to keep up.  Part of the agreemet for getting this through the Senate was an $80 billion agreement to upgrade our missiles.

If this treaty was such a great deal, why the need to bribe the Senate to signt it? Or do demcorats always need to be bribed to vote on bills? No Hal, the issue is that this treaty unlike the one signed to strengthen the US during the Reagan years returns us to those previous treaties where demcorats made terrible deals. In short, the WH is pushing so hard and having to go through contortions, to get a democrat controlled congress to go along never the less, precisely because the treaty sucks ass. Not because it is a good deal.

This treaty would also not scrap missile defense, but would move it more toward a ship-based system, which the Russians are fine with.

A lot of good a ship based system will do our central European allies. Besides, the Russians are not OK with this and are saying the treaty bans all such systems. The WH is pulling shit out of their ass to save face.

The Poles, who would be the most affected by this, are in favor of it.

Oh, bullshit. The Poles feel Obama has stabbed them in the back. The only reason some politician might say that they are in favor of this is because the alternative would involved team Obama screwing them even harder.

That’s foreign relations for EVERYBODY.  Some are just better at pretending it isn’t…

Not demcorats, they think the proper response is to prostrate oneself and bare one’s throat to the hungry wolf in a sign of submission. Like the proverbial coward in Churchill’s quote, they will feed the crocodile and hope he eats them last.

Posted by HARLEY on 12/01/10 at 09:39 PM from United States

Uh TxAg, you need to keep up.  Part of the agreemet for getting this through the Senate was an $80 billion agreement to upgrade our missiles.

Upgrad our missiles??  is this set in stone? because I find hard to believe that this wont be the first thing on the budget cutting pile.
Right now we are dependent on the old LGM-30 minuteman. a very old and clunky rocket that is DECADES behind the TOPOL series ICBM. The LGM-118a peacekeeper was scraped to meet the demands of the START2 treaty, stupid move given that the Russian kept their multi MIRVED systems and still are developing new ones.
IF the Congress had balls they fracking pus forward witha NEW ICBM development, something like the old Midgetman ICBM, which given its throw weight and diameter could not be nothing other than a single warhead system.

No, the Russians have violated EVERY nuclear Arms treaty we signed with them. Putin has even less reasons to stay withing the treaty guidlines than the old Soviet Premiers.

As for the ship based BDM, its a good solid system, but why for fucks sake should we cut one of our balls off?
having a multi-tiered system is essential to a strong and robust defense plan.

Posted by on 12/03/10 at 11:47 AM from Germany

Apparently, the Administration wants to skirt the Senate’s role of Advise and Consent.

Money quote:

The senators note that despite multiple requests, the Obama administration has still refused to provide the negotiating record to the Senate. Without these important documents, the Senate is unable to fully understand the implications of the treaty. This Administration’s denial is tantamount to refusing the Senate an honest debate and undermines the Senate’s role in providing advice and consent.

Posted by on 12/04/10 at 05:38 AM from Germany

What do you know more than these guys?

Posted by on 12/04/10 at 05:41 AM from Germany

Sorry - messed up the above link - try this

Posted by HARLEY on 12/04/10 at 07:57 AM from United States

What do you know more than these guys?

More?, No. but i not playing the fucking footise game with the Russians to garner appeasement.

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